not sure what to title this but it's to do with ejaculation

[YuleingFanjo]

and in particular a man ejaculating on a woman's face. Sorry - I feel awful writing it down.

I was talking to a friend last night, she is much nore sexually adventurous than I am and she was saying that she thought it was part of normal sexual behaviour, that most men found it a turn on and most people she knew thought it was normal.

I argued that it was something that came from porn, was not what I would call normal and there was no equivilant sexual 'thing' for a woman to do to a man. She said that women can 'gush' (I have never done this, maybe I am abnormal) or piss or poo (!) which I pointed out was a totally different thing. But is it?

I was trying to discuss it with her and point out that her sexual encounters are out of the norm, definitely aren't encounters within a loving relationship, and that ejaculating in someones's face is surely more about disrespect than anything else?

or am I wrong. I just find it really horrible and if anyone asked me to let them do so I would show them the door.

Soory - I hope I don't sound like some hairy trucker trying to get off on the whole thing, and I am not asking for personal experiences (I would prefer not to read them thanks) but more to discuss if I am right about the power/porn/disrespect thing...

Do you think people are only influenced by porn if they watch it themselves?

I don't see why you find it odd, Charbon. Either it's demeaning (in general) or it's not. If you say it's demeaning, you must be saying there's something revolting about spunk.

Of course people can be influenced by attitudes around them. Since I was talking about something I did for the first time spontaneously, I was free of all influences except my own urges thank you very much.

I disagree on both fronts.

There is for me no connection with disgust for a demeaning act and disgust for the by-product of that act. I cannot follow your logic at all on that - and it doesn't apply to me.

I think I'm heavily influenced by porn and so is my partner. But neither of us watch it. We do however live in a pornified society.

It isn't about disgust of ejaculate. (That is just as incorrect as the 'prude' trope.)

It is about the symbolism of the face.

I like water but if my partner intentionally splashed a glass of it in my face when we were having a drink, I wouldn't like it.

Our faces are symbolic of our identities. (Hence why we have expressions like 'a slap in the face'.)

That is why the porn hounds decided to film women in this way in the first place.

I do think it's about disgust of ejaculate.
People have a visceral reaction against other people's bodily fluids. Probably evolved eons ago, for good reason, as bodily fluids can be vectors of disease.

It's not just ejaculate of course, but any bodily fluids.

(If you think I'm some sort of pearl clutching prude for saying this, please think honestly how you'd feel about having to pick up a wank tissue left in error beside the bed by a house guest)

However the feeling of disgust is overwritten, isn't it, by love or lust. In that way I can totally see where some men are coming from when they speak of acceptance. That makes sense to me.

The 'painter's radio' cohort probably do feel it's overtly disgusting, and to them it's degrading - the porn viewing reinforces & eroticizes misogyny.

So yes, it's context. And the woman's acceptance or otherwise of the 'worst' part of the man, is key.

When you and your lover have a good old teen style snogging sesh, you swop saliva.
How different would it be if you wanted to spit in their mouth/on their face?

YF I guess a large part of my question will remain unanswered. is it the norm in sex? I know for some people it appears to be the norm for them but in general i was surprised that my friend seemed to think it was happening in more than 5 out of 10 sexual relationships/encounters.

But when upthread I suggested posting somewhere other than feminism to get a more 'typical' response you seemed offended. If you want an answer to the question rather than a lot of (very valid) feminist talk about porn in general, why not post "AIBU to think spunking on faces is degrading" and see what happens!?

because I wanted to post it here in the feminist discussion section, I still don't know why the people posting in this thread here seem reluctant to say if they belliee it's 'the norm' in most sexual encounters. I have read a lot of 'I do it and I like it' but no one here, in this discussion we are having in tis sections, seems to want to comment on that part of the question.

"When you and your lover have a good old teen style snogging sesh, you swop saliva.
How different would it be if you wanted to spit in their mouth/on their face?"

HUgely different i think.

It would be interesting to canvass the wider opinion of MN in general.

I wouldn't do it in AIBU if you want it to be in any way a useful exercise though.

The OP would have to be worded carefully, I think, if you want things to be an exchange of opinions/explorational rather than a bunfight.

I would be interested to see if there is an age divide in opinions.

Yes it's different, but not hugely - I'm not sure why. Probably because ejaculation is a normal part of sex but spitting isn't.

Saliva in the mouth is in it's rightful place, and absolutely fine, but on the face it isn't and could be seen as degrading then.

"When you and your lover have a good old teen style snogging sesh, you swop saliva.
How different would it be if you wanted to spit in their mouth/on their face?"

what i meant by hugely different is that I wouldn't like anyone to spit in my face just as mch as I wouldn't like them to ejaculate on it. there's a uge difference between saliva passed while kissing and spitting.

FWIW on the spitting comparison, I wouldn't let my DH spit up my fanjo or on my breasts, as spitting is very different to coming IMO. When sex is a loving act, the 'end result' of that is all part of the fun to me.

Perhaps that's where the type of relationships your friend has is more relevant than whether the act itself is rooted in porn. If it were a loving husband doing this it may not cause you such a dilemma, trying to decide if its acceptable practice or not.

But the point is, you won't find out what 'the norm' is by canvassing a very specific demographic. The posters on here are by their nature very focused on things which affect women specifically. They all appear to be very articulate, very strong and would have no qualms about stating exactly what is (or isn't) acceptable bedroom practice to them.

If you want to know whether women are being coerced into sexual practices that are 'degrading', my guess is that you won't find many of them here!

I have been asking a few of my friends if this is the norm for them. For 2 gay male couples: yes. Totally the norm, happens as often as not.

One female friend (hetero) said she didn't do it and she would never do it. She doesn't like ejaculate anywhere on her body. She is 28.

One female friend (hetero) said she has done it, likes it, doesn't feel degraded. She is 30.

One female friend (37, hetero) said she'd done and liked it.

Result: inconclusive. All 3 women identify as feminists.

I've always said I might try it with my (as yet nonexistent) husband if we both fancied it but I really do not want to reach a point where a whole host of men have ejaculated all over my face.

Why? What difference does it make if it's one man or 38? Some women would be more than happy with having had 38 men come on their face.

Not that I'm saying you have to, but it seems a rather moot point.

Oh no rational answer for it. It's just the idea. I wouldn't mind one or two, in meaningful mutually respectful relationships. The idea of clocking up loads over time isn't a pleasant one. As I said, no rationality there.

I think the bodily fluids things is going to act as a bit of red herring. Yes bodily fluids carry germs and people may therefore have an aversion to them, but I don't wish to lose sight of the of the symbolism of an act.

I do not dislike page three because I have an aversion to breasts. I object to it because it objectifies women and disrespects them.

I like chocolate, but if throwing bits of chocolate at women during sex is the new things that men start doing as a sign of disrespect for women, then I'm going to think twice about going along with it.

And what is the symbolism of ejaculating on a face?

Because to me, sometimes ejaculating on a face is just ejaculating on a face is just ejaculating on a face.

I find this thread so circular and exasperating.

What is the problem?

Is it that the act itself is disgusting and demeaning? Beachcomber, this is what you seem to be saying.

Or is it the problem that women feel pressurised by a 'pornified' society into thinking they should be doing this? That this act is normalized and pushed at women as 'the done thing'? Charbon, this seems to be your argument now?

I am confused.

I agree with the latter, but not the former. And I really am getting a bit hacked off with 'the personal is political' being used willy nilly to support the views of the poster. That phrase does not mean that every choice we make as individual women is political. It means that personal PROBLEMS can also be seen as political problems ie. in feminist terms, the problems we experience may as individuals may be shared, and the result of an oppressive, patriarchal society.

It doesnt mean 'don't use personal anecdotes to inform your opinion'. And the phrase shouldn't be used as a weapon to stop women dong so.

So, please, stop using it incorrectly. It is doing my head in.

typo hell

Shoopaloop, this thread has been running around in my head and driving me crazy too.

I just don't get what anyone is even trying to say any more and half of it just seems to be totally contradictory.

Sisters, I honestly don't know of another way to put it.

I like to think my posts are quite clear, but I guess not in this case . I suspect that our failure to 'get' each other is related to how we see both patriarchy and porn.

I see porn as a tool of the patriarchy. As an expression of all that is fucked up about the sexual dominance that is patriarchy.

So when I see that that tool is influencing and changing the parameters within which women (and men) make choices about their sexuality, I see a big red flag.

When I see that that tool has become an insidious aspect of the socialization of expressions of sexuality and relations between men and women, I see a big red flag.

And I would like to make it clear (again) that I am not judging individuals' sex lives AT ALL.

Porn eroticizes misogyny. The porn hounds have normalized the act of ejaculating in women's faces. And they normalized it whilst being perfectly transparent that they consider it an act of misogyny and that they consider that that is why porn consuming men find it hot.

Now if everyone else here has no issue with any of that, and they are quite happy with the situation, we are never going to agree. Which is fine. I know what I think and why I think it. Nobody has to agree with me, obviously.

I keep wanting to contribute but really, Beachcomber says it better.