not sure what to title this but it's to do with ejaculation

[YuleingFanjo]

and in particular a man ejaculating on a woman's face. Sorry - I feel awful writing it down.

I was talking to a friend last night, she is much nore sexually adventurous than I am and she was saying that she thought it was part of normal sexual behaviour, that most men found it a turn on and most people she knew thought it was normal.

I argued that it was something that came from porn, was not what I would call normal and there was no equivilant sexual 'thing' for a woman to do to a man. She said that women can 'gush' (I have never done this, maybe I am abnormal) or piss or poo (!) which I pointed out was a totally different thing. But is it?

I was trying to discuss it with her and point out that her sexual encounters are out of the norm, definitely aren't encounters within a loving relationship, and that ejaculating in someones's face is surely more about disrespect than anything else?

or am I wrong. I just find it really horrible and if anyone asked me to let them do so I would show them the door.

Soory - I hope I don't sound like some hairy trucker trying to get off on the whole thing, and I am not asking for personal experiences (I would prefer not to read them thanks) but more to discuss if I am right about the power/porn/disrespect thing...

There's an awful lot wrong with porn generally, but I think porn reflects misogynistic attitudes just as much as creating them. You can probably find porn that reflects every taste out there and I very much disagree with anti porn campaigners who use blanket generalisations & often use dubious anecdotal evidence or just their personal opinion to back up their arguments. I've seen a lot of amateur woman porn where the woman maybe gets a kick out of being watched so videos herself masturbating - she's in control, she hasn't been forced, maybe she finds the idea of people downloading it incredibly hot. It's just simply not accurate to say "all porn is..."

It's ok to say that if something occurs in mainstream and easily available places often, it may influence people into thinking that it's "normal" or accepted. Yes, the facial thung seems to crop up again & again for whatever reason. However, I think banning porn all together as Dines would want isn't going to encourage women to say "Hmm, you know what, I'd rather you didn't do that but I have an idea you might want to try...."

Driving things to become more taboo would, I suspect, make people more ashamed of talking openly about their boundaries than less. It's actually kind of enlightening to me to discuss what a partner watches, because I have no problem asking what they get out of it & if they seem to find degrading women hot - it's not going to last! Red flag!!

Who are you quoting, nifty? The 'all porn is' bit.

FWIW, speaking of 'accuracy', is it true that amateur porn is really amateur? I had thought that was just a name to make people think they were watching people who were doing it for fun, rather than being paid or forced.

Amateur merely means that it's not an "professional" porn movie with a budget.

It could just as well be filmed abuse or a couple's leaked (against the woman's will) sex movie.

Yes, or indeed a young person who doesn't realize the implications of putting his or her sex life on the web. There are loads of nasty stories about teenagers making sex tapes then being incredibly upset and embarrassed by them later on.

Saying it 'maybe' that a woman finds films of herself sexy and then slating other people for 'dubious arguments' is a bit rich TBH. Even if you did believe some of these amateur videos were exactly what you think they 'may be', what's an acceptable risk? Is it ok if 50% are genuine, so you've a 1 in 2 chance of watching an exploited woman? Or is it better if it's 10%, so you've only a 1 in 10 chance? Personally I don't see why anyone would want to justify it if there's even a tiny chance you'd be getting off on someone being exploited or abused.

I cannot understand it either. It make me feel really really sick, thinking about how many poor young girls and women are exploited like this. Some porn also market itself on this: "lol look at these cheap hoes getting exploited and tricked" is apparently a turn on for some men.

I've seen a so much vile shit when I looked on mainstream porn video sites...a lot of it doesn't even pretend it's about sex anymore. It's just abuse movies.

What's up with the ass to mouth thing? Is oral sex now a bad thing too?

Me too sonic.

widow - you're not seriously asking us to explain why putting a penis that has been up your arse in your mouth without washing it is bad?

Btw that is a million miles from oral sex the way I do it, thank goodness.

I thought you were referring to rimming, which is not everyone's cup of tea, but some people quite enjoy. Wasn't familiar with the other practice, but doesn't surprise me that some people of either sex get off on it. As long as it's consensual, what's the big deal?

"As long as it's consensual, what's the big deal?" the issue is that it jst seems like the younger generation of women are persuaded to do more and more 'adventuros' things dring sex which over time they have been conditioned to think is normal. I just can't imagine ever having a conversation with someone about if i minded doing that kind of thing.

Well, pretty big 'if', isn't it?

The 'big deal', however, is that, oddly enough, if your job involves putting penises in your mouth that have been in your arse, you will get very sick, very fast.

Re: Consensual
A woman in a porn movie might consent to having various things done to her so she can earn money. A girl might consent having various things done to her so her boyfriend will like her. Or because she thinks it's expected of her. Or because she doesn't know she can say no, or dare say no. Doesn't mean she desires it, or it's not abusive. Just a thought.

Anything in porn can be defended with but it's consensual! She likes it! She agreed to it! As always the responsible men are hiding their actions behind the woman. The men are the ones who run the companies, make the movies, do the things to the women. They are the ones who choose to do a lot of shit to (in most cases very vulnerable) women in order to turn other men on. Always remember this.

Good point sonic.

Incidentally, there are few jobs you can take, in first world countries, where you run the risk of contracting STDs in your eyes and throat. People who talk about wanting to make porn less exploitative or more regulated, or who want to say 'oh, but it's all consensual' - do they have an answer to that, other than 'hmm, maybe we'd have to stop making porn films where women put penises that have been in their arses in their mouths, and stop showing men ejaculating on women's faces'?

Personally I'm not comfortable with that risk and I don't just go googling things willy nilly. However, it is possible to buy porn directly from the people who make it. There's a lot that's out there which IS degrading & toxic & horrible & will rot you from the inside, but then again McDonalds hasn't been banned either.

It's possible to employ common sense & look into the ethics of what you're buying just as much with porn as it is with farm traceable burgers. It's a product.

Why would buying porn from professional makers be a solution?

"I just can't imagine ever having a conversation with someone about if i minded doing that kind of thing."

YuleingFanjo - I actually find it quite sad that you can't even imagine having a conversation with someone about what fantasies you both have and which of these fantasies both of you can imagine to try out or not.

It doesn't mean that I find it sad that you couldn't imagine actually doing it or wanting to do it - it's not my kind of thing either, but I think in a good working relationship it should be possible to discuss sexual fantasies without fear of upset or ridicule.

Being able to say "no" is important, very important. But so is being able to talk about what turns you on.

I'm not sure I agree.

On the fact of it, yes, it seems almost too obvious that yes, anyone should be able to discuss sexual fantasies. But if my DH, who knows I am a feminist, knows how I feel about porn, knows how I feel about this sex act - and who's told me he won't watch porn - if one day he said 'so how would you feel about me jerking off on your face, that's always been a fantasy of mine', actually, no, I wouldn't be ok with it. It'd be effectively showing me he'd been putting on an act for the whole time we'd been together.

And it's rubbish to suggest that means I or yueling don't have a 'good working relationship' with our partners.

I am fine with talking about fantasies but I would be really pissed off with my choice of partner if he said 'I really want to ejaclate all over yor face'

I think you'd be completely in your rights to tell your husband that it would be absolutely not ok for you to try this fantasy out.

Anyway - if he knows how you feel about this sex act then it sounds to me like you actually have talked about it. Obviously, suggesting doing something you already made clear you don't like is a bit off.

However, if it hadn't been discussed before, then there's nothing wrong or offensive about bringing it up, to find out how you feel about it and whether you would like giving it a try.

Err, I've let dh ejaculate on my face a few times. It was something a bit different and for a little while we both found it exciting. We stopped though, I think both of us realised it was a bit degrading and just never did it again. Then again, I hardly ever give blow jobs any more either.
I can understand how some people can like it though.

sonicrainboom - are you seriously suggesting that there are no female porn producers who do the work behind the cameras, editing, directing, promoting, etc?

It's not a matter of what you 'think' - it is my right to tell my husband it would not be ok for me to do this!

But other than that - yes, we've talked about it because this thread came up. But even if we'd not talked about it specifically, it would still not be ok with me if DH asked me if I was interested in that sex act - it would show he didn't know me at all and had been putting on a front.

It would be offensive to me, and I enjoy the right under law to be just as frigid an unresponsive as I choose. I happen not to be frigid, but you seem to think unless something has been specifically vetoed, then a man or a woman has a duty to consider the idea not just shoot it down. And actually this is bollocks, IMHO.

I haven't said "consider the idea at all". "Consider" means "being open to give it a go" to me (but then it might be one of those second language things again). I never suggested, nor would I suggest that.

Immediate veto as "no, I would never want to do that" is absolutely ok. Saying that in a relationship the topic never ever even should be brought up to find out how the other feels about it, is a different thing.

Also please don't imply that I've called you frigid. I haven't and wouldn't.

I didn't mean to imply you'd called me frigid - my point was, it's my right to be as un-interested in any sex act as I choose. I was really disturbed you phrased this as question of opinion ('I think that') rather than fact, but perhaps I was misreading. Anyway, that's why I felt the need to stress that there is no ambiguity here - any woman is entitled to refuse consent to any sex act.

In my relationship, yes, it's absolutely ok to say the topic should never be brought up. There is no way my DH could bring up that subject without knowingly offending me. It's very simple. I accept it's probably not so simple if you've not discussed sex/fantasy/acceptability much in a relationship (eg. in the early stages) or if you're unsure how you feel yourself. But that doesn't change the fact that there is nothing bad about my relationship -or YF's relationship - just because we wouldn't want or expect to entertain the question.