not sure what to title this but it's to do with ejaculation

[YuleingFanjo]

and in particular a man ejaculating on a woman's face. Sorry - I feel awful writing it down.

I was talking to a friend last night, she is much nore sexually adventurous than I am and she was saying that she thought it was part of normal sexual behaviour, that most men found it a turn on and most people she knew thought it was normal.

I argued that it was something that came from porn, was not what I would call normal and there was no equivilant sexual 'thing' for a woman to do to a man. She said that women can 'gush' (I have never done this, maybe I am abnormal) or piss or poo (!) which I pointed out was a totally different thing. But is it?

I was trying to discuss it with her and point out that her sexual encounters are out of the norm, definitely aren't encounters within a loving relationship, and that ejaculating in someones's face is surely more about disrespect than anything else?

or am I wrong. I just find it really horrible and if anyone asked me to let them do so I would show them the door.

Soory - I hope I don't sound like some hairy trucker trying to get off on the whole thing, and I am not asking for personal experiences (I would prefer not to read them thanks) but more to discuss if I am right about the power/porn/disrespect thing...

or 'dissonance' even

I think the problems here is confusing common with normal. By the same token homosexuality would not be 'normal' but we know it is.

The issues here is whether or not women are enjoying it and doing it of her own voilition.

Alos, I think the assumption that men aall like this is pretty damaging. You end up with women expecting it to be expected of them, men not brave enough to say no and no one is happy.

I don't think anyone's saying "don't ask why". We're saying "don't assume it is something which is degrading just because you find it so or some men portray it as so."

Maybe some people were able to talk about sex. That's your experience. Not mine. Why would you find that insulting?

Anyway, back to one of the points of this thread. Those of you partnered with men who enjoy doing this, what do they say about why they enjoy it and where they first learnt that this is something that men-as-a-group enjoy? I'd be really interested in men's responses to that.

I mentioned already upthread that I can't take hormonal contraception so my partner doesn't ejaculate inside me. I asked him what he liked about it and he said it's nice to feel accepted by me, that his semen on me doesn't disgust me. He doesn't particularly prefer to ejaculate on my face any more than any other part of me, and he certainly doesn't feel feel as if he's thinking anything degrading while he's doing it.

Did my partner learn it's something men-as-a-group enjoy any more than he learned sex is something men-as-a-group enjoy? I don't really know if it's that simple.

He concedes he probably did realise it was something you could do through watching porn.

DH is in the bath, but when he comes down I will ask him as I am interested now.

I think he will say that it seems a bit domineering, possibly a bit territory marking and that he likes the fact I appear to like his cum (sorry if thats abit tmi). All things which could be degrading in a bad relationahip, but are not in ours as it is based on a lot of respect etc. Plus its not like this is a big deal for him or a major part of our sex lives.

On the second question I think he may be a bit about "men as a group"

Any way I will ask and update

DH likes the fact that we have an 'anything goes' sex life, and that we are both open and adventurous . He says it makes a 'great visual', but he equally enjoys the kick he gets from the view when he is returning the favour. His words.

DH doesnt watch porn. He viewed a few films as a teen, but its not his thing. He doesnt like strip clubs, porn mags or any of that jazz. He has never discussed this with a man, so doesnt know how it is viewed by 'men as a group'. He thinks you should ask men who watch a lot of porn.

Asked him. He did look at me like

He likes it because it's 'rude' apparantly

As for the second question he said he has no idea what "men as a group" like

Then he wandered off to play Skyrim

Thank you Charbon for saying what I could not articulate. Also thanks to Catgirl for doing the research, albeit anecdotal.

I was thinking about eroticism earlier as I entered a manual carwash. It was an erotic experience in itself and I remembered having showers where we washed beforehand. I loved that much more than the 'sex'. It brought us together as a couple. Would love to do that again. Sharing of washing each other with sponges. mmmmm.......

I think we are all talking at cross purposes here.

There seem to be posters who think that because what gets known in porn as 'facials' are considered misogynistic by certain other posters, that that means that we are saying that your partners are misogynists/want to degrade you/humiliate you. I can understand how you could take it that way.

But that isn't what we are saying, or certainly it is not what I am saying.

I'm saying that this particular act has been popularized and normalized through porn.

The vast vast majority of porn is aimed at men. The vast majority of porn is not about presenting sexuality (of either men or women) in a realistic fashion. Porn is sensationalist and extreme. It is also often extremely violent and abusive towards women. Women are subject to verbal, physical and emotional abuse in porn. Women are described in insulting, abusive, degrading, racist, sexist, sneering, violent, hate-filled language.

Women are routinely filmed having men ejaculate on their faces (often several men at once). These women are described in porn in abusive and derogatory language such as 'cum drinking whores'. There are often references made about women choking on ejaculate. There are references made to women loving the degradation of having a man jerk off on them.

These are not mutual acts of a loving couple who respect and care for one another.

Individuals, who, in their private lives choose to engage in this act, and who are both enthusiastic about doing so, and clear and happy in their motivation and sense of boundaries, no doubt feel that what I have said above about porn/degradation does not concern them.

However for every couple who are secure and happy in their choices, there will be other couples who don't have such a safe relationship in which to express their sexuality. Perhaps because they are young or perhaps because their partner pressures them to participate in acts they have seen in porn that they are not comfortable with. And there will be women feeling they aren't being allowed the space to decide if this particular act is for them because 'everybody does it' due to it having been normalized in porn and they are being told it shows acceptance of their partner/that they are not a prude/that they are liberated/that they are sexy/etc.

I'm deeply uncomfortable, politically, with our sexuality being influenced and manipulated by a misogynistic and violent institution.

"Part of it for him (I asked him during this thread) is a feeling of acceptance"

each to their own I guess but it seems a strange way (to me) to gain acceptance. acceptance of what?

"Men who DON'T find it degrading probably don't go on forums saying "I like coming on my partner's face because it makes me feel close to her". "

so that's why nice men like doing it? to feel close to their partners? So if someone said to me that they wanted to do it to me to feel closer to me it's much better? To be fair, I doubt any woman would let a man do it if he said he wanted to do it because it was degrading and that made him feel good.

I would hazard a guess that women ejaculating on men's faces is even less of 'the norm' than men ejaculating on women's faces but I think using 'the norm' may over excite people again

I think it makes a lot of difference whether a couple is in a long relationship where they've (one assumes) worked out an agreement on what their sex life is going to be like, versus a couple who don't know each other well.

What the original message said was she is much more sexually adventurous than I am and she was saying that she thought it was part of normal sexual behaviour, that most men found it a turn on and most people she knew thought it was normal...I was trying to discuss it with her and point out that her sexual encounters are out of the norm, definitely aren't encounters within a loving relationship.

What disturbs me about this isn't what committed couples are doing, but the fact that if women and men have sex without much of a relationship, it's something the men expect to do quickly. And the women expect to let them.

First, Charbon, great posts and I totally agree with what you're saying.

Second, I don't want people who are asking their male partners about this to shout at me, but isn't asking 'why do you like coming on my face?' going to elicit the same kind of answers as: 'does my bum look big in this?'

Third, I am now hugely worried by what the porn industry is going to be telling my daughter is normal and commonplace ten years from now. Are we going to let an industry based on female exploitation tell our children what they ought to accept as normal sexual behaviour? Fine if they want to experiment and find their own way to things, but deeply, deeply worrying if the porn industry is pressuring them into something en masse.

I agree with other posters that the porn industry doesn't 'invent' any sexual act, but what it can and does do is popularise and 'normalise' acts, and it seems to me that the stakes are constantly being upped. Men used to just brag about getting a women to sleep with them, now it's whether they have persuaded their girlfriend to have anal sex, and jizzing on her face. What's next? As I see it, this is MEN's sexual agenda being forwarded in a large scale way, not women's.

I'm deeply uncomfortable, politically, with our sexuality being influenced and manipulated by a misogynistic and violent institution.
Hear, hear, Beachcomber

"What disturbs me about this isn't what committed couples are doing, but the fact that if women and men have sex without much of a relationship, it's something the men expect to do quickly. And the women expect to let them"

my feeling is that most of the men my friend has sex with want to do this or my friend wants most of the men she has sex with to do and they oblige or they both want to do it. I really don't know. I didn't ask for specifics.

Incidentally we were having this conversation not because she was telling me all about her sex life but because she was telling me about a conversation she had with a male gay friend who was shocked by the fact that she thought it was 'the norm'. She was telling me how surprised she was that he thought it was an odd thing to do and that it happened to her often. I told her that I actually agreed with him and didn't think most people would think it was 'the norm'.

"I am now hugely worried by what the porn industry is going to be telling my daughter is normal and commonplace ten years from now"

I am extremely worried about what the porn industry is going to be telling my son is commonplace and respectful :( Let's face it, he's more likely to be watching it. I would really hate it if he thought this was an appropriate thing to ask a woman to do.

There you go again with the judging Fanjo. I'm so sorry you can't imagine a man wants to feel accepted in bed as well - the same way a woman might feel accepted by a man going down on her.

This thread is honestly massively messed up. No one seems to be able to speak to each other without being insulting.

I can only talk from my own experience and I don't need a man to go down on me to feel accepted and I definitely wouldn't feel unaccepted if he didn't.

I can't see how that is massively judgemental of me. As far as i am aware I have not personally insulted anyone.

So what? You can't relate to it so it's therefore "strange"?

I am expecting to get insulted for my profession but I have worked for many years as a maid for working girls. Occasionally men ask for 'facials' on the phone. I act dim and say 'I am very sorry sir, my lady isn't a beauty therapist' They get embarrassed and stammer!

But Fanjo, it IS an appropriate thing for him to ask a woman to do! Why wouldn't it be? Why is this one thing seen as being so awful in your eyes? And what is this talking of women "letting" men do stuff? Plenty of men are not interested in ejaculating on faces. Just because they've seen it in porn (or haven't) doesn't mean that they are automatically want to do it.

Why are people so intent on showing women as passive victims and men as marauding sexual warriors? It's just not my experience at all. In my experience, people are able to separate porn and real life, the same way they can separate films and real life. That doesn't mean porn isn't problematic.

Tis an interesting first post, therunner.

I named changed for it. Its actually rare that men ask for it.

Thanks for the answers to those questions. It seems that only one man out of the three understood the second one and this was yellow's partner, who conceded that he (and therefore presumably men-as-a-group as that was the context) learnt that this might be an enjoyable activity for men, via porn.

I think if you have trouble believing that a) this sex act has its origins in porn produced from 1990 onwards and b) that it is marketed in porn as a degrading act, uses that as its selling point and might therefore influence society and individuals' interpretation of it as an act that degrades women-as-a-group, it must be really difficult to separate the personal from the political, or to see beyond one's own relationship and the parameters therein.

Those of us who do believe a) and b) don't have this difficulty and can see how problematical it can be for men and women to reject something that has been normalised by a sex industry that is perjorative to both men and women in its depiction of men as the brutalisers and women as the brutalised. And that the more something is normalised, the more pressurised both men and women might feel to do something they have discomfort with, or which they find painful, for fear of being described as somehow mundane, prudish or behind the times.

No Charbon, that's not what I said. What I said was he thought he personally got the idea from porn. Men-as-a-group - I mean, what does that even mean when it comes to sex? It's like saying women-as-a-group don't like ejaculation on faces, it's ridiculous. Why are you so desperate to misconstrue what I'm saying.

So you're saying you're right and we're wrong, naa naaa naa naa naa. Right. So the point of this was???

This sex act doesn't have its origins in porn from 1990. Do you really think no-one did it til then? Maybe it has become more normal, but seriously, I don't think no-one did it pre-then.

It is really really frustrating that you seem to think you are so much better at being a feminist or that you are able to see things we aren't. It just isn't the case. People are allowed different opinions, allowed to view things in a different way. I do not see it as a degrading act. It is degrading if it is part of a degrading relationship as is any sex act.

The fact it is marketed in porn as degrading (sometimes - it really isn't all the time) does not mean that men and women alike cannot see porn and sex as different things.