To all those who say on threads 'I am too scared to go into feminism' - this topic isn't scary!

[GetOrfMoiLand]

I think it's a shame when I see threads where the OP says 'I am too scared to put this in feminism' or something.

I am certainly not knowledgeable about feminist theory, but have never felt that my opinion on this thread wasn't wanted or I was vilified for stating what I believed.

I think this topic is pretty inclusive - yes some people are forthright with their opinions, but nobody's word is god, and I would hate to think that mumsnetters were put off contributing to threads in this topic because they mistakenly think the posters on here are viragos.

OK....

This is going to be hard....

And i'm probabably not up to the arguement...but....

I have never been told that a man has a more relevant point of view than i have.
I have never let my DD believe that her OP is not as important as her DSs.

The rape stuff has nothing to do with my/dds everyday confidence given that neither of us have ever been raped.

DD earns more than her DBs.

Who says she has to read comments that insist she cannot be as good as a man.....where are these comments?

A body to be fucked???

Where is she told this?

MsC,

Looking back to your original post, you raised three things:

• the reading lists and academic tone of debate
• the name calling
• dragging things across threads.

I think that the reason why the academic one was picked was because it's the one that only applies to the Feminist board regulars "side" whereas with the other two, both "sides" are probably guilty. I don't the regulars should be held accountable for things that everyone is guilty of.

I don't think it has caused a stir MsC; I think it is that people think that discussing how feminism can be inclusive and include both academic and non-academic viewpoints is important.

MsC, there should be a variety of threads, some will be academic and some not. But there should be enough on here to interest everyone who wants to join in.

MsC - from me, it was for the reasons I've said - it's not you, it's that there's a history. If you do want me to explain more I will, but do you mind if we do it on the PM? I just don't want to re-hash 'and she said and I said and' when the threads haven't been deleted, they're still there and lots of people know exactly what happened and why I'm upset by it. I did acknowledge it was a rather personal and marginal issue, I think.

Lenin, not sure, but was that comment aimed at me? If it was I'm trying to engage with MsC in a civilised manner and certainly not suggesting that she is attacking.

Maybe you're not being attacked, maybe people are defending themselves against your criticism of them? You put yourself down earlier but also say other people make you feel bad here. You don't have to 'be' anything, just be confident in yourself.
Also, you don't have to read academic books, etc. but feminism is a political ideology and therefore books do come into it. But there's so much material online that if you really don't want to read texts, there's still tons of stuff out there.

My DD is a woman.

I am a woman..

And we are equal to ANYONE.

Hey ho....

Sounds like a song.

reeling - in all honesty, my list was intended to be things beyond dispute - I've misjudged I guess.

For me, knowing so many women get raped affects my confidence hugely. It's really scary.

Of course individual women earn more than some individual men (whoever suggested not?), and of course you as a feminist mother teach your children well. But obviously (and sadly), these are exceptions.

For the comments, try the Guardian on any feminist topic - after a little while you'll see them. . Plenty of graffiti, catcalls, and so on, will also say the same.

For the sex thing - buy any porn magazine (well, please don't, but you know what I mean).

It's great you and your DD are confident women, but that doesn't mean otehr women are so fortunate - or necessarily so strong.

I can sympathise with the point. I have a friend who knows a lot about postmodern type things, which I don't get, and sometimes I am trying to express something quite complicated but don't have the vocabulary to make myself clear. I feel she is impatient with me and doesn't try to meet me half way and understand my garbled point.

I think you can go on other threads if you don't like academic debate, but if you're trying to understand and want to stay on the thread, I do think it is worth asking for somebody to clarify. Certainly I've asked both LRD and SGM to simplify stuff so that I can follow and they have been prepared to do so.

That's the point Reeling we are equal to anyone.
Just for a lot of people, they aren't treated so.

You don't have to be interested in any topic. Some people are into social justice even if they're not personally affected, some have other prorities. Dunt matter

MsCellophane-
when i first come here i disliked acedemics and middle class people.
reason being-ive fought all of my life and i thought it was the middle class and acedemics that i was fighting.
i come to realise that it wasnt the middle classes and acedemics i was fighting-it went further than this.
to be honest-ive found this section really helpful with this as i no longer find the need to fight with middle class people as i can see further than this now-
and my disagreements/discussions with them[in rl]are fairer[on my part]
you didnt say anything wrong!
since being here-i feel the anger of "them and us"[in rl]has lessened for me.
and i thank the middle class women and acedemics on here for this.

Reeling
I have never been told that a man has a more relevant point of view than i have.

We're not always told directly though.
Sadly, in some educational settings it is communicated (not through direct speech because that wouldn't be allowed) that a man has a more relevant PoV than a woman. The female who is talked over, without the lecturer ensuring her voice is heard, etc. etc. Noone should be marginalised in education.

If you are a female lecturer, you are less likely to have students come to see you for advice than if you are a male lecturer as you are not seen to have the same degree of authority (even if you are supernice!).

Quickly delurking for this. Doesn't everyone wish to become a better human being? I understand we learn from our mistakes. Somebody who believes they're never mistaken and doesn't desire to better themselves must believe they're already perfect. Sorry if that's inflammatory, I thought Hully's wish was meaningful and the criticisms unkind.

Justaminnit - To me, the gone off to become a better person, implies strongly that there was a need there for that poster to do that, and therefore implies strongly that she wasn't a 'good enough' person in the first place.

I have never heard anyone say/write such a thing without it being sarcastic/an insult.

Equally, Milly, I'm sure I've asked you to simplify and explain. That's the way it works, and I've not been made to feel stupid when you do explain, at all.

justa - I don't understand your logic? Everyone may wish to become a better human being - that's totally different from someone else saying they wish you'd become a better human being.

That comment reads very badly, imo.

LRD.....
Unfortunatley i do know of a case where a Woman i knew said she had been raped.
Sadly (for both) it turned out that she had not been raped and the arrested man had not even been anywhere near her.
The Woman in question was ill and years later committed suicide over other issues.
But the arrested man had to spend his time in the cells.

reeling -

I think you've got onto a different topic now, right? I don't really want to talk about rape truths and myths if that's ok. It doesn't seem to me relevant to my post.

To all those who are /lurking/have "silly" Qs- come over here.

CBA reading the whole thread...

But message to dittany if she is lurking - "please come back". I am sure you will because you know that society patriarchy people try to silence rad fems. And you don't want that - you know that you've changed lots of people's minds on issues!

We need more every day threads IMO and less of these huge tortured introspective ones.