To all those who say on threads 'I am too scared to go into feminism' - this topic isn't scary!

[GetOrfMoiLand]

I think it's a shame when I see threads where the OP says 'I am too scared to put this in feminism' or something.

I am certainly not knowledgeable about feminist theory, but have never felt that my opinion on this thread wasn't wanted or I was vilified for stating what I believed.

I think this topic is pretty inclusive - yes some people are forthright with their opinions, but nobody's word is god, and I would hate to think that mumsnetters were put off contributing to threads in this topic because they mistakenly think the posters on here are viragos.

I do feel sad if anyone feels stupid - I've felt pretty stupid in this section and as if there must be something I just don't understand. I bet all of us have at one time or another wanted the thread to go about 10 times slower so we could have a cat's chance in hell of reading and understanding (with frantic googling) what is being said.

But that's very different imo from people using education level as yet another way to shut women out of debate - and that is a huge feminist issue, isn't it?

Yes, it is an issue, but it is the same on every area of MN. The education section has both threads where people post based on research and threads where people are talking about the experiences of their own children. I don't see that the feminism section is any different. There are lots of different threads, and I don't think it is necessary to have read a lot of feminist books. I certainly haven't.

On a practical note, I watch feminist youtube talks rather than reading feminist books.

Cross-post.

sparky, I love that explanation - that is how I feel, too. I am C of E, and I know it is patriarchial but my view is, I want to be there to see it change (and it is changing).

I am not an academic but i is not stupid.(sic)

I have never felt stupid because i don't know something.

And i also don't think you have to read anything to be a feminist.....

You just have to know your own worth.

SGM.....

Are you calling me an academic?

[grrrr]

It is a pretty offensive thing to say ...

yep-it is a feminist issue[using education level..........]
but to be fair-i personnally dont feel this on here-
im virtually uneducated and i feel alright on here.
i taught myself to read and write when i was little and hardly any schooling after 11-but this dont matter![theres more than one way to skin a cat]
but i suppose the other side of it could be?-for those that say they feel stupid on here-could some of this be coming from you?is it lack of confidence-or how you actually feel about youreself?[this is a feminist issue]
i feel ive as much right to be here as anyone else!

Actually, no joke, I had some woman at a conference recently react very oddly to me saying laughingly that I'd outed myself as a feminist by stating certain views ... she kept saying 'oh, no, you're not a feminist', rather as I imagine people would respond 'oh, you're not an total idiot' to someone who'd just said the capital of France was Morocco.

It was really annoying!

And you have Sparky...

You really have....

Every right ,that is..

LRD...did you mean 'academic' was offensive.?

I was only joking to SGM.

sparky - absolutely, the two things (education level/confidence level) are interlinked and women tend to get shafted on both of them.

Btw, erm, I always like your posts.

You've definitely as much right as anyone to be here!

reeling - yeah, sorry, I was joking too, saying 'academic' was offensive. It just occurred to me it could be a taboo word on here, as 'feminist' too often is in my area of academia.

lol LRD-i just nearly accidently reported youre 21.30 post instead of answering it!
well i dont know much about C of E-but-yes-you have to be in the fight to win the fight

LRD...

Why do women get shafted at an education /confidence level?

I never did and my DD won't.

Why does that not happen on the education section then? Why are there not people on there complaining when other people have multiple posts referring to academic papers on the education system?

Most mothers are as interested in the education of their children as they are in feminism.

It'd be great if we had a 'MN has deleted this post now', the others would spend hours trying to work out what had been said that was so offensive!

reeling - Well, women across the world are less likely than men to be educated. Women even here in the UK are hugely under-represented at the higher or more authoritative levels of academia (head teachers and professors tend to be men). And - though this is more subjective - I think academia has quite a lot of misogyny in it (though also some wonderful feminists). That's the education bit.

I could write an essay about women getting shafted in terms of confidence ... I think women are constantly being told, overtly and more insidiously, to shut up, to stop trying to match men, to not trust their own brains or bodies. Here's just a short list of things that have the potential to smash a woman's confidence:

• She has a 1/4 chance of being raped.
• Her rapist, however, has a good chance of never being punished.
• She may well be told that it was her fault.

*She is likely to be poorer than a man who works as hard and is as educated.
*She is likely to do the burden of the housework.

• She still has to hear and read comments that treat her solely as a body to be fucked. *She still has to hear and read comments that insist she is not and cannot be as good as a man.

I'm not LRD but ... in higher education, in a subject that has predominantly female undergraduate students usually (IME) when you look at postgraduate students you see that the balance has shifted and the proportion of students who are male has increased. Then when you look at lecturers in the same department you will find that the proportion who are male has increased again. Factors - 'grooming' the relatively few male students for postgrad, giving preference to applications from male undergrads, and shocking bias against women when it comes to appointments. In depts I've been in, a lot of networking still takes place in the pub, in all male scenarios. In the arts, certain departments are still often 'boys' clubs'.

In seminars and tutorial, you can see that males often display a level of confidence despite being in the minority. Often the female students will defer to a male student. They'll often be quieter around a male, seem to seek his approval of what they say. The dynamic in all-female and mixed sex tutorials can be very different. It is really interesting and obviously it's the job of a lecturer to level all this out, but not all do/care about it/notice it(?)/want all the students to have a fair chance.

Can I ask why me saying the academics can be off putting has really caused a stir but the other things haven't?

That was a small part to answer - why are people scared of this section

Exactly MillyR.
Do they get all angsty on Arts&Crafts when someone links through to a complicated knitting pattern.

Thin skinned here but some of these answer are exactly why I find the feminist board hostile at times

I didn't say academia should be stopped, I said for some it's scary and offputting

I actually feel quite attacked for saying that - what was wrong with what I said?