Was Bristol Palin raped?

[darleneoconnor]

according to this bristol palin was so drunk when she conceived her son that she doesn't remember having sex.

Sounds like rape to me.

Then she was basically 'forced' to marry her rapist? WTF! Sometimes America sounds more like the middle east!

Quite a few forums are discussing this, with some

disgusting rape myths on this forum

No-one is saying he made her get drunk. Just that if she was drunk to the point that she wasn't capable of consent (and being so drunk that she can't remember anything suggests she was indeed that drunk), he shouldn't have had sex with her. Huge difference.

Of course she said it once, its in the pre-released excerpt from her book. Or are you suggesting that the reports are making it all up and she never said anything about being too drunk to remember losing her virginity???

She may not have called it rape, she may not realise it was rape, but for all the reasons explained above, if she was too drunk to give proper consent, it was rape. Its really not that difficult.

To be honest, it's threads like this that keep me away from feminism. Bristol hasn't claimed rape, it sounds she didn't have a great first sexual experience, but it's sexist and unfair to paint Levi as a rapist, given the little of what we know.

Agreeing with Hully. People are so desperate to call Levi a rapist. They were both pissed, she has never claimed rape, she says she doesnt really remember.

That sums up an awful lot of sexual encounters among camping teens. Hwck, it sums up mine. Pissed as a fart and barely any memory. It wasnt rape.
Im leaving the thread now and hope to god neither my daughters or my sons have some of you judging them one day.

Many women who are raped don't call it rape, doesn't mean it didn't happen. The point is, legally, its rape.

Me too, Riven

But it's sad, because it's just so unhelpful to the cause.

Riveninside, I hope to God for my dd's sake that mothers teach their sons that its not OK to have sex with drunk women. I see that as the moral obligation of a mother, to teach our children the acceptable way to behave.

Fucking pissed-up girls isn't a good thing. It may be common. But that doesn't mean its good. Our daughtes are worth more than that, and, by fuck, so should our sons be.

If the cause is protecting our female children from sexual abuse and assault, which to me is one of the main aims of feminism, then I fail to see how this cam possibly be damaging.

Teach our children the right way to behave, and stop making excuses for bad behaviour on the grounds that "its just what teen boys and girls do". Cos that's just a stinking great crock

Boss - do you any sons? That isn't meant to be inflammatory, just that I think when one has (I have both genders), one becomes as equally concerned about both and keen to see both take responsibility for themselves and towards the opposite gender.

There's a "have" missing

Too right Hully. Of course i have drummed it into my sons as well as my daughters. Neither of my sons drink thank gawd. So their judgement wont be impaired and they wont make a drunken mistake and get accused of being rapists.
Ds1 is 18 and reading this thread.

Hully - am hoping to have more children - a few health problems mean that conception/pregnancy is very unlikely (actually, think its now impossible, remind me to check!), which means that adoption is probably the route. Keep fingers crossed for me on that front even if we clash on this thread, will you?

For some reason, when people adopt, there is more demand its seems for little girl babies, so if I want to be open to a placement of either sex, its more likely I'll be adopting a boy. Maybe my views might change, but I really hope that I'd raise a boy to respect women and understand what constitutes shit behaviour.

Of course teens have sex when they are drunk, so did I, God knows I was no saint. In fact, I think I was drunk every time I had sex with my DH for the first month or so after meeting him. But I reallly do believe there is a difference between " a few drinks to get over the embarrasment" - dutch courage, so to speak, and blind drunk to the point you have no memory in the morning. And I hope I'll raise my son to respect the difference, and respect a woman's right to remain unmolested. Ditto my daughter (although to be fair, I've never yet met a man who can maintain an erection when drunk, so not quite sure there's risk there!)

Both sexes should take responsibility.
As i said, my 'first' was pissed as a fart and I have little memory. But dh says i came onto him pretty aggressively. There was no rape just because i cant remember.
This attitude of some on the thread is likely to get a lot of young men labelled 'rapists'.
I have taught both genders right and wrong and not to drink or take drugs because it impairs your judgement in all situations. What else can I do?

Yes, I know plenty of 15 yr olds who choose to be sexually active and put themselves on the pill (without calling it "stomach cramps") and that like to party and often drink. I'm not sure why you find this dubious, but maybe that's your issue, it certainly isn't mine.

Oh yes, she wanted to wait until they got married, but they both "relented."

Anyway, this, once again, has become fruitless. Clearly anyone that doesn't want to stand up and proclaim BRISTOL PALIN WAS RAPED is a rape-apologist non-feminist and fuck innocent until proven guilty, we'll just sling young Levi to the wolves.

Good plan.

Both sexes hold responsibility for sexual encounters. Not rape.
You cant paint women as these passive creatures waiting for a male. Many women are sexual predators too and gair play to them so they need to know alcohol impairs judgement etc
I have told my sons tro avoid drunken females coming on to them but the average teenage boy would have sex.

Im not saying this well but its not as black and white as dittany would like. Have you sons dittany? Have to ever been drunk and indulged in drunken fumblings and come ons?

Do you then get a whole bunch of strangers judgfing what you did and saying you were raped? I doubt it. I think its gross
Y unfair to label Levi a rapist. None of us know him but without proof and beyond reasonable dount you arebeing judge, jury and executioner.

Riveninside, the lesson you should also be teaching your sons is, If you don't want to be labelled a rapist, don't have sex with drunk women.

It being "a drunken mistake" doesn't mean its any less rape than attacking a stranger in a darkened alley.

x-post Riveninside!

Both sexes are responsible though, dittany, so the message should be given to everyone.

True, female rapists are a lot less common than male ones, but that's not a good argument for only giving men the education; male rapists are a tiny subset of men overall, so why give this inefficient education to only one gender?

Frankly, I don't like this 'we need to educate men and boys not to rape' line. It objectifies men, and has more than a hint of misandry. It assumes that the default position for men is that they're going to rape someone, and only by being told otherwise by their mother or their school will these actions be avoided. It's complete nonsense!

I think i shall tell my sons not to have sex until they are marraied. Just to be sure its actual consent.