Was Bristol Palin raped?

[darleneoconnor]

according to this bristol palin was so drunk when she conceived her son that she doesn't remember having sex.

Sounds like rape to me.

Then she was basically 'forced' to marry her rapist? WTF! Sometimes America sounds more like the middle east!

Quite a few forums are discussing this, with some

disgusting rape myths on this forum

Ok, what if I was drunk, and ended up having consensual sex with a guy who I wouldn't touch with a bargepole if I was sober. I immediately regretted it the next morning, crying on my flatmate's shoulder about it while he showed off all over town.

That's not rape, that's bad judgement from me and crap behaviour from him if he knew I only wanted to have sex with him because I was drunk.

Horrible, but not rape.

Bigfatcath - sorry, I shouldn't have used catholic as shorthand for Palin's moralistic posturing. Not good, sorry.

Hi TheBossofMe, Muddling through here, you know. I'm loving your work on this thread.
You too dittany.
People have just been so brainwashed into thinking girls/women have a tendency to lie that they cannot see something that's glaring them in the face.
THe truth is: men have a real tendency to lie. They lie to their wives all the time about affairs, prostitution business trips to Hungary for prostitution orgies.. In particular, men lie about rape. To protect themselves. To prevent themselves from getting sent down.

Rivenside the Z.. dunno, I just find it funny. It's like a typo, as if a really angry man or male-identified woman is pissed off that feminists are defending women, so instead of typing What about the MEN!! it accidentally comes out as "menz" !!!! instead.

could be something else though

sakura is right. People come at this with the assumption that women are lying. They get drunk, have consenual sex, regret it in the morning and throw around accusations of rape.

The reality is that alcohol is the number one date rape drug and there are men out there preying on vunerable drunk women and raping them.

Macaroona, I had a lot of drunken one night stands when I was younger, some of which I wouldn't have had if I was sober. I wouldn't accuse these men of rape because they made sure I was sober enough to consent (they asked how much I'd drunk, made sure I could have a coherent conversation), they made sure I was an fully active participant, they gave me plenty of opportunity to change my mind and did not pressure me to do anything I didn't want to do. A couple decided not to have sex with me because they thought I was too drunk and might regret in the morning. If all men acted like that, I doubt they'd be accused of rape.

I don't assume that women are lying any more than I assume men are lying,

I do assume that anyone who writes a memoir at the age of 21 has something to sell or an agenda to push, and that stories contained within that memoir will have been written with that agenda in mind.

Is that a more polite way of saying that she's probably not telling the truth?

Looks like it.

Where did this "young girls lie" thing start? I mean, people talk about teen lads "exaggerating", which is IMO a bit of an indulgent, almost soft laughing word. Whereas when we talk about young girls, we talk about them "lying" and "making it up", harsh, judgemental, negative connotations.

Sakura - funny old thing has happened over the last few weeks, plenty of time to think seems to have lit a bit of a fuse under me, and I've become really angry about lots of things. Perhaps having my femininity so physically challenged has made me a more articulate feminist (although judging by my ramblings on some other threads, maybe not!). Its certainly made me a more outspoken one. I've also seen some really negative patriarchy-bound behaviour directed at my 3yo DD which has made me FURIOUS. She's 3, ffs, seriously, how can it all start so young?

karma - the "drunk women are easy prey" thing starts so early. The 13yo DD of a friend of mine came home in tears from a school prom because the boys brought booze in Daddy's hipflask to the dance, and were offering it to girls that they "liked". Girls they didn't fancy didn't get any (which actually is why she was crying!) Why would you do that if it wasn't to lower inhibitions and move in for the kill? Its starts early, carries on through fuck-a-fresher week at Uni, and on and on and on.

Is that a more polite way of saying that she's probably not telling the truth?

About this story? She may or may not be telling the truth. I don't really care TBH. Either way it sounds as if her first sexual experience was not terribly nice, both in itself and in how she felt about it (with extra points for an upbringing that would make it difficult for her to have a happy sexual experience).

But it would be naive to think that everyting in the book is going to be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

I think it's very patronising to infer from Bristol's brief interview that she was raped.

Let her name and own her own experiences for her own reasons.

Good to be back, dittany - I've been lurking even though I haven't been posting, and this section has kept me sane - its been a collective voice of inspiration for me. One of my "vows" to myself has been to stop being so stupidly polite and accomodating in my life, and be much more outspoken about what I actually think, stand up more for what I believe in - I think I'm starting to learn from your example!

I don't know about you, but to me it feels like this section has found its stride and is starting to have a really really positive impact on the MN community - witness that fab "Silent Majority" thread.

I spotted a poster somewhere else on the site talking about genital mutilation - this has just reminded me to find her thread and point her in this direction.

Why are you happy to assume that he planned it?

Why give him all the autonomy and sexual desire/intent and paint her as a stupid gormless girl?

I definitely agree that the victim doesn't have to call it rape for it to be rape.

But I think you are not doing Bristol any favours - you are making her an object, completely passive, with no will or motive of her own. In your story things are done to her, but she doesn't do anything herself.

I don't understand the last couple of comments. Rape is by definition an act of doing something to someone else.

Nobody has said that Bristol was stupid or gormless.

Can we separate out the two things?

1. We know about rape. Really, we do. We know about date rape, rohypnol, rape myths, consent etc etc etc

1. In the specific case of Bristol and Levi, we have no idea what happened and it is dangerous and unfair to make assumptions and accusations. All we have is a brief interview with Digital Spy (the renowned source of truth and justice) pushing Bristol's book.

1. Do we? Lots people have made comments that suggest they don't know about these things.

1. Has Bristol come out and said they misquoted her?

Implying that he made her get drunk (she has no willpower/autonomy/decision-making capabilities/self-responsibility) and then raped her (she couldn't have wanted to be sexually active) does indeed imply she's stupid and gormless.

I know a hell of a lot of 15 yr old girls who choose to drink and have sex and own their experiences most happily, something that Bristol can't do publicly, even if she wants to.

the "doing" comment is that you are making Bristol a blank canvas on to which you are prohecting your own experiences and theories about rape. Anyone who doesn't do similarly "doesn't understand" rape. win-win for you.

How often does she have to say it before you believe her, Hully? Three times, four times, what's the magic number?

Once would be good.

She hasn't said it once, there's just you, deciding and saying it for her.