Was Bristol Palin raped?

[darleneoconnor]

according to this bristol palin was so drunk when she conceived her son that she doesn't remember having sex.

Sounds like rape to me.

Then she was basically 'forced' to marry her rapist? WTF! Sometimes America sounds more like the middle east!

Quite a few forums are discussing this, with some

disgusting rape myths on this forum

I don't think any of us can possibly know if she was raped or not. I have known people who don't seem all that drunk and yet the next day claim to have chunks of memory missing. Either they lose their memory easily or they are more drunk than they appear to be.
It's not for us to judge. If she thinks she was raped then that is very sad and for her to decide how to progress with the situation. Being accused of rape is very serious indeed and shouldn't be done by anyone who wasn't there to know what actually happened. A false accusation hurts real victims.

Gosh! If one can't consent while drunk (as some posters are saying, 'more than tipsy'??) then the best night of my honeymoon was grounds for prosecution! Sooo much wine, so hazy at times, but wondefully disinhibited and definitely not rape! (Unless we're about to say marriage=consent which of course we're not).

If a woman's non-responsive or saying no then there's no consent and it's rape.

That doesn't mean every drunk woman is raped, even blind drunk, unless we criminalise all drunken nookie and make men responsible for both parties behaviour.

I don't think Bristol Palin is saying she was raped, Dittany. She appears to be saying that she didn't remember much about the night she had her first sexual experience when she was drunk. I think other people are speculating about whether having sex when you are drunk is always rape. And I do think that discussing an autobiography someone has written is not the same as 'always doubting a woman's story'.

Surely men should just err on the side of caution when having sex with drunk women and then they won't get accused of rape. Especially when they are having sex with a drunk 15 year old virgin who has been brought up in a culture of abstinence before marriage. Chances are she won't want it.

The girl was 15? Isn't that rape anyway?

And stomach cramps, ie period pains, are a pretty normal reason to go one the pill.

I see your point Karma, but they were in a relationship - what if they were both equally into it at the time? It was (surmising totally) presumably a two-way thing. Is it still his and only his responsibility to stop, knowing that if they continued, he could be technically raping her?

(she was 15 so it is statutory rape either way, but the consent issue is interesting)

LeggyBlonde, I think that's a bit disingenuous as an explanation TBH. How many people having drunken sex on any given night are going to be on their honeymoon, having just given a very public display of their commitment and love, and probably having talked about it and made private jokes and innuendos about what was going to happen from the point where they were sober right up to the point where they had sex. You'd both have made your intentions very clear to each other throughout the day, so I'd say that you did give informed consent, and because you showed no indication whatsoever of changing your mind in this case your new DH could rightly assume the consent you'd been giving him all day still stood by the time you reached the bedroom.

That's nowhere near comparable to the woman who's just had a date, or the woman who's having a drink with an ex-boyfriend or indeed a current boyfriend.

Dittany -

'what's been said' - yes, by some posters, other posters are debating it. We are all making judgements based on a mix of the facts, her story and our own opinions.

Please don't just attack.

She hasn't said she was raped, just that she can't remember the sex. Is it then automatically rape?

She says that after their initial encounter, they decide to abstain until marriage. Obviously, later, she changes her mind, but it sounds like that at the point that she lost her virginity, she wasn't ready for sex.

Either way, don't have sex with drunk 15 year old girls who don't believe in sex before marriage and you're unlikely to be accused of rape. Simples.

I would say, without knowing the facts as I wasn't there, that she may have had the upbringing that says if you're drunk and in bed with a bloke then you're asking for sex. I would think, given her mother is a gun toting idiot, that she wouldn't have any idea that she may have been too drunk to consent and therefore it could have been rape.

If the same situation happened to a 25yr old woman who had any idea about rape she may have other ideas about consent, ability to consent and whether or not she was raped. Expecting such consideration from a daughter of Sarah Palin is like asking Jeremy Clarkson about the environment.

Lots of people aren't ready to lose their virginity when they do - doesn't mean it's rape. Lots regret it. Still isn't rape.

I don't think sex when you are so drunk you don't remember it is automatically rape.

We can't possibly know if she was raped - the only people likely to know that are her and her boyfriend.

Crapola

Given that they were on a camping trip, and not alone it might be interesting what other witnesses to the events have to say.

If he'd asked when she was sober, I doubt she would have said yes.

I have no idea but I'm happy to bet that if I signed a will, handed over my life savings to a random stranger etc when a bit pissed, the fact I was drunk would invalidate it. Generally, it's accepted that drunk people are temporarily incapacitated wrt financial decisions. Why different when consenting to sex?

dittany, from the first link in the op.

"The single mum insisted that the two later agreed to abstain until they were married, but that they eventually relented and had sex again."

I see women as people Dittany, and she quite possibly has lied about some aspects of the whole shenanigans - it wouldn't be surprising given the pressure she's been under. Also, this whole thread is speculation tbh.

I'm not going to engage with you on this thread as there are lots of people actually posting interesting points.

What's up for debate is whether from what we know, she was raped or not. Some people think yes, others think no.