Rape within marriage

[tabouleh]

Yes unashamedly a thread about a thread.

It is like entering the bloody twilight zone over there.

Jeez there are MNers basically caring more about OP's husbands right to sex rather than believing OP and helping her.

Totally understand if this gets deleted for being a thread about a thread - but if it gets more of the feminist viewpoints onto that thread then great.

So you doubt her because she didnt " react correctly " ie, ringing the police and hystericly screaming. No one here , or on the other thread, suggested her doing that , and it wouldnt have been apropriate. She said that technicly it would be classed as rape, and shes right, it would, and people have posted enough legal links for you to be able to grasp that.

Portofino, if your so convinced your right, perhaps attempt to lobby your mp to change the law on rape to suit your own standard. Good luck with that.

But I for one would not share my bed/home/children/life with a rapist - see, no double standards there.

I stayed with xp for 7 years.

you continue to make statements that suggest to me you feel i can't have been raped.

I just hope your never picked for jury service.

unfortunately dignified dolly and porto are not th enly people that think like this.

there views are precisely why as little as 7% of reported rapes reach a conviction.

that is 7% of the tiny amount that actually do get reported

Gigantaur, i stayed for much longer.
Portafino, hypothetical question about full consent and your response was " sometimes you just put up with it ". Im not sure why youd say that unless its something you regularly do.

Or were you suggesting that other women should just put up with it ?

I have a very old book somewhere (in storage I think - we're moving) called The Rapist Who Pays The Rent. This thread is very reminiscent.

Anchor - I'm sorry this thread has also been a painful one for you after the last one. I had hoped this one would be more supportive but it's not been really. I hope you carry on posting - there is a lot of support here for you

Gigantaur, your situation is truly saddening and I can see very few similarities with the OP's. It is possible that the OP's relationship is on the same trajectory but it may not be.

By supporting the OP you are encouraging her to label her previously loving and respectful husband as a rapist and consequently herself as a victim. Is that really necessary? To what end?

I ask again, are we not to allow our loved ones the benefit of the doubt, even once?

this thread is ghastly

i really wonder why some posters are so invested in minimising something that is so clearcut

someone said NO to sex and fell asleep
someone else penetrated them anyway

what benefit of the doubt is there? perhaps he thought no meant stick it in anyway, or thought that by going to sleep she was indicating that she was well up for it?

i really really hope that these attitudes are not being passed on to children but it is almost certain they are :(

I have to leave this thread now. It is far too late for me.

I started this thread because I could not believe what I was seeing over on the Relationships board.

I will reiterate what I said in my OP on this thread:

"Jeez there are MNers basically caring more about OP's husbands right to sex rather than believing OP and helping her."

I believe those who have told us that they have been raped.

You are not to blame, none of you, not one single bit.

You are survivors. Hold these thoughts close to you as you fall asleep. ((Hugs))

What I want from Anchor is for her to not feel the need to slap a label on her husband or herself because of what the law or the mumsnet feministas say. He is your husband, tell him of your distress and he will most probably apologise profusely. Then kiss, make up and draw a line under it all.

Goodnight and apologies to those that I may have offended. Remember, I have no axe to grind, I am just trying to make the world a better place .

I dont think shes slapped a label on him, but she is quite rightly angry and upset about it, and i dont blame her one bit.

I too am leaving this thread, its too late for me and ive managed to eat 3 packets of crisps and a packet of peanuts.

That is bizarre, thedolly. What is the definition of a rapist if not someone who rapes, as described by the law? All this "when did the law get so important?" stuff is baffling to me.

I must say it's ironic, when some of us are regularly referred to as the "leave him brigade" (the fifth emergency service presumably), that we're being told off in this instance for not saying "leave him". Some people seem willing to say anything, anything other than an expression of support for Anchor. I truly cannot understand why someone who has been through this is being targetted for so much abuse on MN.

OMG, this thread just makes me want to cry (as did the deleted thread). What's wrong with people? Where has some people's compassion gone? I can't believe that anyone thinks that penetrating someone who has said "I'm non interested" and then gone back to sleep is anything other than having sex without consent - consent has explicitly been denied - ie it's rape. Staggered there are women who don't understand this, staggered there are women who think that Anchor's loss of libido is a bigger problem than the fact that her husband didn't understand that no means no. Just staggered, TBH.

Holy. Fucking. Shit.

Dolly, you have said, explicitly, that despite the fact that you agree that this is legally rape, you want Anchor to kiss her husband who raped her and "make up".

Do you realise that you are trying to make the world a better place FOR RAPISTS?

Portofino, I can only agree with everyone else. What a vile, awful, horrendous set of posts. I am actually sickened. But you've got so much emotion and anger going on here, I am left wondering (and you don't need to disclose, obviously) if you've been the victim of a violent rape yourself? If so, I am truly sorry for you.

Anchor, I have no idea what your usual username is, but you strike me as just wonderful. What grace you have in the face of such ugliness. And when you wrote "draw a picture maybe" I actually laughed out loud.

dignified "I dont think shes traumatised by having a penis in her, shes had sex before , she is upset at having her feelings disrespected, her body violated , there isnt a scale. A person doesnt have to be violently attacked to be allowed to feel violated and upset."

Thank you for writing this. I think this is what a lot of people fail to grasp about rape.
SOme rapes are all the above PLUS coercion and violence.
The existence of the very violent rapes does not somehow cancel out rape. THat argument is flawed

I just woke up from an awful nightmare about the person who hurt me after reading all the crap on this thread. I am just glad I read this before I ever posted about anything that happened to me, I would have been ripped to shreds.

I hate it when people pull out the stranger rape is real rape argument. Rape in itself is an act of violence. Sometimes that act of violence is accompanies by additional violence which must be an awful thing to deal with. This additional violence often takes place in rape within relationships too. Sometimes rape is not accompanied by additional violence. This does not take away from the act of violence of rape that has taken place. That's like saying you are not really mugged unless you also get punched in the face and kicked to the ground. Having someone violate your body, your personal and private space, when you do not want them to is a horrific experience regardless.

People on this thread who keep attacking what Anchor has said disgust me. As others have said go and have your discussion somewhere else. Stop picking over someone's personal experience. Why would you want to do that? The awful things that people said to me at the time I was hurt have hurt and haunted me for years and made healing so much harder. Why would you want to do that to someone?

accompanied by not accompanies

I really didn't know there were people that thought like this, quite sickening really.

I really feel for the OP, imagine coming on here to get support after such a thing and being subject to what she has been.

sorry crying baby to attend to

Dolly
You say you are trying to make the world a better place.

You can make Anchor's world a better place by shutting the fuck up and getting off this thread.

I have never sworn at a poster on MN so you can see that your comments have truly infuriated me.

Rape is not just a word. Rapist is not a label. It is not a hypothetical situation you are discussing here. It is the awful realisation of Anchor that her husband commit such a heinous act.

By downplaying it, you ate making the unacceptable forgivable. It is not.

It's very simple. Putting a penis inside someone who doesn't want it there = rape.

I don't know why that is so hard for some people to understand. Doesn't matter whether that person with the penis is a husband, a partner or a complete stranger. It's the act that is rape, not the identity of the rapist. This perfectly clear definition seems to be so threatening for some deniers that they are very hostile when someone points out the plain facts to them. They need to understand that this is THEIR problem.

It's not for rape victims to reassure the deluded and stupid. It's for the stupid to stop harassing rape victims.

Well said edam.

Anchor if you are still reading this then I hope you are doing ok today. Hugs and support to all those on this thread who have been sexually assaulted.