Rape within marriage

[tabouleh]

Yes unashamedly a thread about a thread.

It is like entering the bloody twilight zone over there.

Jeez there are MNers basically caring more about OP's husbands right to sex rather than believing OP and helping her.

Totally understand if this gets deleted for being a thread about a thread - but if it gets more of the feminist viewpoints onto that thread then great.

This thread fills me with despair.

If you wanted to give ammunition to the "Mumsnet is full of man-haters who would not recognise good advice if it bit them" brigade then you are succeeding beyond your wildest dreams!

"I'm genuinely shocked that MNers could turn on a rape victim. That's horrifying."

Many readers of the thread do not accept that the OP was raped. Nor do they accept that adding to the OP's problems by encouraging her to believe she was raped was the best way forward.

PORTOFINO leave Anchor alone - your posts are full of bull.

No-one ever ever has any right to expect sex. End of. Dear oh dear..

Beachcomber, I am hoping we can end up with some sort of positive outcome. I cannot tell you how awful "if you think he raped you then why didn't you call the police/why haven't you left him" is to read.

Probably because if my friend related what had happened I would probably say "that was rape, you could call the police".

Not should, could, but still.

Going forwards, I think how he reacts to our conversation will be the decider. He's at a client site this evening which gives me time to put my thoughts in order.

I am terrified because I want things to be recoverable but he has to accept responsibility and if all these WOMEN are telling me oh poor husband and compromise is part of a marriage and it wasn't rape and if it is why haven't you left -

if all these women think that, maybe he thinks the same. I don't think so - the man I know is a feminist ally, a respectful man, an aware man. I know that about him.

Or do I? Because I would never, ever have thought he would put his penis in me without my active consent, let alone when I had said no.

So. I am scared.

I missed the origional thread but it is probably just as well as I am finding some of the posts on here difficult to read.

When will people get that rape is not defined by what a woman does or does not do but by what the rapist does. I really don't understand why people believe that men have this special right to sex regardless. I find it all so depressing.

I wish people could know just for a second the damage that rape does to a person. They might not make so many excuses for men then.

This thread is honestly why I don't believe in modern feminism. All women are saintly and all men are evil. And never the twain shall meet....I hear all your arguments here, but you've brought in the third party and force and that just isn't what is being discussed.

How is it adding to her problems to advise her to discuss what happened with her husband, as she is very sensibly going to do?

The OP herself says that she was raped, many people on the other thread were saying that she wasn't. Well, lot's of women have been there, haven't they. At home, with their friends, with their partners, in court. The OP knows how she feels, she is being encouraged to deny how she feels and pretend it didn't happen. I'm not sure how that is supposed to be a really positive move.

To sum up again...

Anchor's DH tried to initiate sex.
She said NO.
He penetrated her.

That is what rape is. That is the definition of rape. People who want to put a different defition on rape - what definition would you want?

Yes that's a good question - what definition would others want of rape. If a woman saying NO and then being penetrated isn't rape, then what is? Genuinely interested.

Anchor - I am so sorry for what you have gone through. Please try not to worry about the perspectives of some demented posters, or other supposedly women posters, who are down right mean spirited and want to kick you when you are down.

You can seek help.

You can survive this.

You have been so brave in your postings.

Well said Portofino - exactly why I don't believe in modern feminism either.

Portofino, this will be my last reply to you.

There's "more to this". Yeah, of course. There's ten years of marriage, severe depression, drugs which have extinguished the libido I once had.

I hope to god you are never the first person a rape victim talks to about what happened to them.

I already said, over and over, that I don't feel raped. But what he did WAS rape. I need to find a way to go forwards with that.

If he tells me that I owe him sex and he is sick of being turned down, then yes I will probably end the marriage.

If he his horrified at what he did, if he apologises unreservedly, if he accepts that NO MATTER WHAT, what he did is technically rape and was not okay not not not.

Then there might be something to work with.

You are entitled to your opinion of me, but please could you stop? I already know how you feel. Thanks.

Point illustrated.

Rape is actually very simple - it means having sex with another person who does not want to and does not consent or cannot consent. Period.

How we feel about rape is hugely complex and depends on the individual, circumstances, relationship to rapist, social conditioning, etc.

Anchor has clearly and sensibly posted on both what has happened and how she feels about it. No one is screaming that her husband is a rapist who needs locked up - posters are just supporting her right to feel upset and violated by what has happened to her (non consensual penetration which is by definition rape).

It is because we are so influenced and conditioned by the rape myth of stranger rape/jump out from bushes scenario that people feel uncomfortable with naming what has happened to anchor.

sleepypjs, their opinions don't worry me other than to make me miserable in general - women beware women and all that. I am not taking them to heart specifically; I know they are wrong, you know?

The whole mess earlier today was bizarre but as I said upthread there was a positive for me in that I didn't find myself doubting myself, blaming myself. A while ago I would've done.

It's a shame that some people have followed me here - I heard what they said the first time. But they are entitled to their opinions and to post them.

Clearly it is important to them to keep saying the same thing, over and over. I can understand that as it's what I have been doing all day.

I wonder what part of their worldview is so dependent on my husband's actions not being rape, or my somehow having consented or 'helped him' penetrate me. I do wonder.

The people wanting Anchor to be supported have not taken an anti-male stance at all.

Anchor I hope your DH will be upset and understand and that this will have a positive outcome for you if that is the right thing for you.

I agree that if your Dh thinks you 'owe' him sex then that is not ok.

Anchor - I admire your courage and eloquence in such difficult circumstances.

You speak so much sense.

It is such a shame that some of the unsupportive posters have followed you here. You have asked them to leave, and now they should take heed of what you have asked.

I hope the feminism section can help in some small way.

What beachcomber said at 22:10:00 - totally agree. It's teh thought I've been trying to form for ages and is spot on, and very well put.

Oh I don't especially want them to leave, this place is great because it's open to all.

I am just not sure what's in it for them.

The feminism section is a great help, has been for quite some time. Though I feel a bit of a shit feminist just at the moment.

Anchor you are very strong to keep posting on here.

There will be a lot of people lurking here and this thread will be raising awareness and changing peoples views.

We can see from a lot of the MNers posts a snapshop of the prevailing attitudes in this country - but I have confidence that we can change attitudes in the future.

Please can I encourage people to look at the link TBE posted before www.thisisnotaninvitationtorapeme.co.uk/home/

There is also some campaigning info.

"Despite recent efforts to help women who have been raped to receive justice, societal attitudes continue to play a significant role in limiting justice for women who have experienced this crime. Several reviews (including one by the Crown Office in Scotland) and other pieces of research conducted over the last few years have highlighted consistently and alarmingly a range of prejudicial attitudes held by the public which blame women for their victimisation and compound an already traumatic experience by attributing the assault in whole or in part to some aspect of their demeanour or behaviour.

To summarise my thoughts Anchor:

I believe you.

You are not to blame.

You will survive this.

You deserve to take the time to think about how to deal with this.

(Do not feel pressured into thinking that what has happened to you is not real and that if it is you should kick out your DH and/or report him to the police.)

Portofino and Marantha - I am sickened A) by your attitudes but B) more importantly for coming onto THIS thread and expressing them. A stunning lack of compassion.

If you genuinely want to debate these matters start your own thread.

"enjoying the attention"

What a fucking disgusting thing to post Portofino. .