Rape within marriage

[tabouleh]

Yes unashamedly a thread about a thread.

It is like entering the bloody twilight zone over there.

Jeez there are MNers basically caring more about OP's husbands right to sex rather than believing OP and helping her.

Totally understand if this gets deleted for being a thread about a thread - but if it gets more of the feminist viewpoints onto that thread then great.

No, Portofino. I said that in the past, he had groped me while I was half-asleep, and that had sometimes led to sex which I 'got into'. And had consented to.

I told him I didn't want to have sex. I went back to sleep. He. Put. His. Penis. Inside. Me.

I hope that makes it clearer than my other four or five reiterations did.

But on other occasions she allowed it, this time she said No. I dont think he is a " rapist " and needs locking up right now , but i do think legally he commited an act of rape.
Why ? Because the law says so.

This is NOT a mechanic, or a friend though. She was in bed with her husband, in a spoon position, how they normally sleep. On occasion in the past, they had had sex that started in a similar way and she was happy with it. On this occasion, she expressed that she wasn;t happy with it, and got up. Her right to do that. But I don't believe this makes him a rapist!

Even if they previously did this every morning with full consent , on this occasion she didnt consent.

Whether theyve done that before has absoluteley no baring on it.

Porto - she said no, she moved away and dozed off. Then he spooned her and penetrated her. So she said no and he did it anyway. Why does it matter if he is her husband/friend/mechanic? She said no.

Sorry - Anchor posted after me! OK, then what can I say but sorry! He is obviously a complete and utter bastard, so leave him.

Why does it matter who did it ?
Do you agree youd see it more seriously if it was a stranger , ie, you sound as though you feel her husband has special rights than other men do.

What would you feel about the mechanic scenario ?

She could be showing off a piercing!

This, and the vagina indicating a default state of consent have made my evening.

OP, I didn't read and I'm glad I missed the other discussion. Sounds as if it was harrowing. The world is full of twats.

It's a labelling problem isn't it, and a "rapists look like this " problem.

If people say it's rape (which by definition it is), then that means her husband is a rapist, and then obviously it's all very complicated and big and important and you have to call the police and all that sort of thing.

The fact is that many men rape and get away with it because women won't name it, or think "well he's alright most of the time so he can't be a rapist".

Many women who have been raped do not give what happened to them the name rape. Because that's "too serious" and then they have to deal with it. But that plays into all the rape myths. If people say that this situation - where the woman actively said no and the man stuck his penis in her anyway - is not rape... isn't that a very slippery slope?

It's also that some women don't want to admit that their husband/partner raped them. It is too awful to contemplate.

Jesus, Portofino.

YES in the past he has instigated sex from the baseline of "being asleep in the spoons position". Occasionally I respond favourably, GIVE CONSENT (roll over and kiss him, how outlandish! Grope him back, my goodness! Help him take off my pyjama trousers!).

In this particular case he said to me, as is usual in this situation for us, "can I interest you in some fun?"

Now, I detailed my libido issues in my OP so suffice it to say that more often than not, the answer is no, I am not interested.

As was the case, verbally, this morning. I said "I am sorry darling, it doesn't really appeal".

I went back to sleep, having SAID NO TO SEX. I did not at that point leave the room, no, because why should I? I said no. I stayed in the position we usually sleep in, too. I had made myself clear.

I dozed back off. He rubbed up against me some more (not unusual), then moved my buttocks apart and penetrated me. With his penis. In my vagina.

At which point I jumped up and left the room and told him that what he had done was rape.

I am very uncomfortable with the thought "my husband raped me". I am sure he didn't consider it rape.

But if ANYONE I KNOW, or anyone I read about on a forum, or my daughter, or ANYONE, described what happened, I would say "that was rape".

It was, technically, rape.

I don't feel raped. I feel very sad and afraid, and like our sexual issues may now be irrevocable, as how can I muster up any desire to fix a relationship with a man who would do that?

I have emailed my husband about it over the course of the day and we have agreed we need to have a serious discussion about what happened and what it will mean for us.

But, I TOLD HIM NO. And he did it.

I probably won't end the marriage over this incident but that doesn't mean that what he did wasn't, technically, rape.

I feel sick typing that but it has to be all or nothing - there are no degrees of rape.

Gawd she shouldn't just leave him either!

She needs to talk to him. I missed most of the thread so don't know where she's at, if she has already done that and what he said etc etc... But if I were in her boat (with my DH who has no previous in this area and is generally lovely) then I'd be asking him what the fuck he thought he was playing at etc.

I don't think that husbands have special rights. I stand by what I said, he tried it on in a similar way as he had previously. His reaction to her getting up and going to the bathroom was to ask why she was grumpy?
He didn't insist on following it through.

I am obviously deluded and if he is a rapist, then he should surely be arrested and charged?

Portofino. He had already 'followed it through'. I would say that putting his penis in my vagina when I was asleep, having SAID NO TO SEX, is pretty 'insistent'.

Does it only count if he ejaculates? Can I make it any clearer to you?

Anchor you sound hugely sensible and I totally agree with your above post.

I hope that your DH will understand how you feel and see that what he did was very wrong.

hahahha at surely if he is a rapist he should be arrested and charged. Yes that is exactly how it always works...

porto I don't understand how you're not getting this.

In the past, her DH has tried to initiate sex while she has been half asleep. Sometimes she has consented, sometimes she has not. When she has consented, they have had sex. When she has not consented, they have not.

On this occasion, her DH tried to initiate sex while she was half asleep and she said no. He then penetrated her.

That is entirely different to what had happened in the past.

Prolesworth, it's okay, I am hoping that if I reduce it to words of one syllable?

Maybe I could draw a picture.

Anchor - your first post was clear.

I am sorry you have had to encounter such abhorrent attitudes on a forum that should have provided support.

I hope you get the proper support in real life.

Portofino your defence of a husband that you do not know if unsupportive.

Anchor sorry you are having to give us the cbeebies level explanation of what non consent and therefore rape is.

Astonishing and illuminating to see just how prevalent the whole rape myth thing is in people's attitudes.

I read her posts, thank you. She was raped, so therefore she should report him. Or leave him, or both. That is what I would do. She might be shocked about what had happened and find it hard to process.

"There are no degrees of rape" Well that maybe true, but that is not a statement that I would expect to hear from a victim who was raped by her husband this morning. There is more to this.