Harry RAVEC decision appeal

[smilesy]

I thought I would start a separate thread to discuss the court case which started today. I for one am still baffled as to why Harry thinks that his treatment has been unreasonable, given that he no longer lives in the UK, but is still given security on a case by case basis when he visits. This seems perfectly reasonable to me 🤷‍♀️

So basically they are arguing that RAVEC's risk assessment wasn't as good as the RMB's would have been?

Is it the

• quality of the risk assessment
• requesting it 28 days in advance
• the fact he has to request it and someone could say no

or all of the above?

Worth remembering too that not only did Harry fail to secure what he wanted in the original case, but was refused an appeal too - though this was later overturned ("not without hesitation" in the words of the judge) in another court

Not being a lawyer I don't know what this says about his chances this time, but I'm honestly amazed that he hasn't invented produced details of more recent disasters to buttress his claim ... an attempted break in perhaps, the DCs being followed by some dubious character, threatening phone calls or whatever else occurs to his febrile mind

It does seem to imply that he may decide at a moment's notice to whisk the Sussex family over to the UK. And that security should be on standby always at the highest level for that eventuality. In a world of government cuts and money saving I'm not sure this will fly.

The thing is, it's of no importance to the nation whether or not he 'brings' his family to Britain, or indeed whether he himself ever visits again. I'm not sure he understands this.

Not to mention that nobody in any position of authority would want any harm to come to the son and grandchildren of the King. If risk assessments conclude that he and his family require security, it will of course be provided so long as he cooperates with the relevant bodies. That is more than fair and reasonable.

This 'case is simply not logical. It's all about spite and jealousy.

Honestly he needs to stop now 10 days notice is sufficient and if there was an emergency with the king they would give it to him anyway he needs to understand he is not important anymore in the grand scheme of the royal family he isnt even a "spare" really

Harry is 5th in line and holds no official role. He is simply not important enough to be granted round the clock security on standby. He chose to live on another continent and give up his royal role, though even if he had remained, chances are his security would have been downgraded at some point. As I said above, he's just not that important and this is something he is unwilling to acknowledge.

Is he trying to get his IPP status reinstated?

If he wins his case, will we be "treated" to regular visits to the UK by the whole Sussex family?

I don't think so.

Honestly I just think he wants a win against the UK the whole thing has devolved into a mantrum

I think I’ve read previously that he’s said the reason they don’t travel to the UK currently as a family is because of the lack of security. However, it’s also been said Meghan isn’t likely to want to travel back to the UK, so it would remain to be seen if they would suddenly start travelling here more if he gained what he wants.
I guess there’s the chance he’s considering his Dad’s current health status and age, and the possibility he may need to travel back at very short notice at some point in the future, with regards to the not wanting to give a lot of notice to security of intention to travel?
I must admit I thought the whole thing was done and dusted some time ago.

This 'case is simply not logical

That may well be why absolutely no-one's ever answered the question of what's wrong with a case-by-case assessment, @IcedPurple ... not even the more manic fans

Deciding what's needed in each case (and of course providing it if it is needed) sounds sensible to my layperson's mind, but what would I know?

If he wins his case, will we be "treated" to regular visits to the UK by the whole Sussex family?

Edited to add that though I usually avoid it I'm going to go out on a limb here, @DancingFerret, and say that I honestly don't believe Meghan will ever again allow the children to enter the UK
If I'm wrong I'll be the first to say so, but with the way things are turning out I don't see her taking the risk of Harry deciding to stay and keeping the DCs with him

I think so

So he wants to be treated as a fulltime working royal without actually having to be one?

I don't believe he's ever held IPP status. Even in Britain his security arrangements were subject to ongoing assessments and could be downgraded at any time, so it would be strange if other countries were legally obliged to fund his security.

He now holds no official role so there is no question of his having IPP status.

I think I’ve read previously that he’s said the reason they don’t travel to the UK currently as a family is because of the lack of security.

Firstly, as I mentioned above, nobody cares whether or not he travels to Britain so that's not a good reason for the courts.

Secondly, he has no problem travelling to Nigeria or Colombia and leaving his children at home without their parents, so claiming Britain is uniquely dangerous is nonsensical.

Thirdly, there is no 'lack of security'. His family's situation is kept under continual review and security will be provided if deemed appropriate.

I fail to understand how that is not a fair and reasonable arrangement.

Surely if Charles was at death's door Harry could stay in a palace with security.

This is the real prize, I assume. To get that level of security paid for would save them a huge amount of money. From that point of view, of course Harry isn't letting go of this case. It would bail him out, big time.

I must admit, stupidly, I hadn't thought of the possibility of needing to come over in a hurry because of Charles having a medical emergency. But there is a process in place, surely, after the late Queen's death, for that? Also I'd assume then Harry would come alone. The rest of the family would be coming I'd guess for (when the time comes) the King's funeral, but again they will be ready for that.

But he is treated the same as the other members of the royal family.

Princess Anne only gets part time security for official engagements and she was actually the victim of a kidnapping attempt where several people were shot.

If Harry wins his appeal does that mean that the taxpayer will have to provide security for the Yorks?

Is it the 10 days notice? I mean it is pretty exceptional that he wants UK security paid when he doesn't live here. He gave up Frogmore that presumably had good security and has refused apartments in Buckingham palace. It's like he expects a team of protection officers just sitting around waiting for him to call.

It's just another case of Harry not liking being told No .

I guess there’s the chance he’s considering his Dad’s current health status and age, and the possibility he may need to travel back at very short notice ...

I doubt that would prevent security being provided, @daisydalrymple - after all it was when Harry did a flying visit after his father's cancer announcement

Security arrangements are made in emergency situations all the time, but that's very different to providing whole teams on standby just in case

The decision of whether or not to grant him
security when he’s visited the UK has always been correct so far. It would be a massive piss take it he was getting security for incidents like his court cases.
If there was an emergency like his father’s health, I am sure that they’d wave the 10 day rule or send the people who normally protect the King to transport Harry to and from the airport.

Just catching up. I agree with pp who have said that Harry just wants what William has. I also agree with the point that he seems to want security available at the drop of a hat if he suddenly pops over the pond. I’m not sure what he thinks Special Protection do if they are able to just wait around to babysit him when he decides to rock up🤷‍♀️

He did get full security when he announced he was coming to see the King after the cancer diagnosis - he was swept away from Heathrow in a cortege of police cars to Clarence House

but didn't mention he was also in the UK for one of his (multiple) cases against the press

If Harry wins his appeal does that mean that the taxpayer will have to provide security for the Yorks?

No, this is only a judicial review. It's about whether or not RAVEC followed the correct procedures in arriving at their decision. It's not directly contesting the decision itself.

If the appeal is successful all that will happen is that RAVEC review his case, and they will very likely come to the same conclusion all over again. Harry simply does not meet the criteria for automatic security, and that is not going to change.

Again I'm not sure Harry quite gets this, but what Harry doesn't get could fill that 'sprawling' Montecito mansion.