Harry RAVEC decision appeal

[smilesy]

I thought I would start a separate thread to discuss the court case which started today. I for one am still baffled as to why Harry thinks that his treatment has been unreasonable, given that he no longer lives in the UK, but is still given security on a case by case basis when he visits. This seems perfectly reasonable to me 🤷‍♀️

The existing security arrangement is logical and sensible but, at the end of the day, it’s not the same security arrangement as his brother. Sense and logic are clearly taking a back seat to jealousy, rampant entitlement and zero understanding of job roles.

He doesn't seem to grasp that kc3 /qc and williams family get security because of their constitional position - head of state and direct heirs.

He can't see past his brother having more than him in anything. He wants 24/7 armed security on standby at all times so that he can nip back and forth at will, and so that the security has to follow him and his wife around even if they are over here to party or for Insta/Netflix content.

It's well documented that he has never taken any interest in the history of his family. Would explain why he takes all the trappings of royalty so much for granted - to him it's all just normal.
He should take a look back a couple of generations : at the time of her birth, princess Alexandra was 6th in line to the throne. Same as archie. Now she is 58th - assuming the page I just looked on is up to date with the newest York baby.

PH is too dim to realise that he too will soon be relegated to the fringes of royalty, with anyone under a certain age asking 'who is Prince Harry?'

Indeed and unfortunately the taxpayer is paying the price.

@bizzywizzy yours is a very astute, balanced and ultimately dripping with the truth kind of opinion.

Despite the racist hate that MM certainly does attract from the tory/reform/mysoginists/classists. I think he married her hoping that he can have an elevated position in the family and use their marriage to stay relevant for longer. I also think he didn’t really prepare her for any protocols/ formalities in his family because he was the dumb brother and he maybe didn’t know. It always came easy to him as he was the child of the Prince of Wales, second in command. I think that Meghan has taken her time to come to the realisation of the family she has married into and that’s what’s led to the drama and split. She had Harry as the guide and information point to this family and he really doesn’t understand things beyond nuclear family of grandma is queen, daddy is a prince and my mummy was the people’s princess.

I’m not sure what he thinks Special Protection do if they are able to just wait around to babysit him when he decides to rock up

I rather doubt Harry thinks at all, @smilesy, or if he does that he cares

Like so much of the RF I suspect he regards all these service providers as lackeys, there to fulffil the royal will at a click of a finger ... except that with the rest we don't usually have to experience it in glorious Technicolor

And I don't imagine I'm along in wishing that, though legal judgements are phrased in the driest of terms, somebody - just somebody - would tell him in words of one syllable that he's simply not important enough to justify all this

They are working royals. Harry isn't. It was his choice.

It's not even that they're working royals. They are the future King and Queen.

Being a 'working royal' doesn't in itself guarantee round the clock security, as we can see from Harry's uncle and aunt.

He hasn't lived in the UK for 5 years and giving 10 days notice is very reasonable. The king offers him to stay in a royal residence where there is already security but Harry prefers to stay in a hotel. That's on him. He should be paying for his own security given he chose to leave the royal family of his own accord. The late Queen gave him a whole year to change his mind but he was adamant he doesn't want a role in the RF. I think he's lucky RAVEN give him security on a case by case review tbh. He's certainly rich enough to pay for his own security as other celebrities do. He's made himself, his wife and kids have a bigger target on their backs by boasting of how many Taliban he has killed. I'd be furious with him about that if I was his wife. If he loses his case I would expect he should pay cost for RAVEN.

This seems to be an extreme manifestation of 'extra sausage syndrome' a.k.a. sibling rivalry. Many cultures have mythology, folk tales and quasi-historical accounts of the human phenomenon: Cain and Abel, Romulus and Remus, the offspring of Zeus.

'We have always savoured meaty, intergenerational conflicts' wrote Philip Womack. 'The brutal, bloody battles between Thyestes and Atreus climax in Atreus serving up his brother’s children to him in a pie, taking sibling rivalry to a whole new level.' It's a grim and extreme mythological metaphor, but it speaks of the venom and levels of psychological instability that can develop if left unchecked in early life - and indeed, the unhinged, jealous, unstable, selfish and avaricious sibling is close to an archetype in ancient myth.

I wish Harry's many therapists had better addressed his internal wrestling with sibling rivalry. I don't feel he has been well-served by them at all.

He was allegedly pissed off that Taylor Swift got police security to Wembley Stadium the day after there was a terror threat at one of her concert overseas.

Exactly. The entire Sussex family would be facilitated if/when this happens.

Mantrum! Love it.

Yes.
It's less about security and more about status, imo.

Tbf a friend who is in Special Protection said that escorting TS felt all kinds of wrong too, but the point that Harry is missing is that he does get protection when it’s deemed necessary, so no different from TS in that case

lol. He downgraded himself. In so many ways.

From Reuters: "Harry's lawyer Shaheed Fatima said the agency which protects royal and public figures had treated Harry on a "bespoke" basis not applied to anyone else"

I'd need a legal mind to explain this to me, but surely a bespoke basis is exactly what other RF members apart from the very senior ones get??

I'm not going to call it garbage without knowing more, but while I'd expect that from Harry it would be a bit of a surprise coming from a lawyer

I'm following this mostly because I want to understand why he believes he needs a different arrangement.

Despite the racist hate that MM certainly does attract from the tory/reform/mysoginists/classists.

Can you point to or quote some of this 'racist hate'? Disliking someone's behaviour does not equate to 'racist hate'.

Re the court case, I'm waiting to hear the evidence in support of Harry's assertion that his family is not safe in the UK.

Typical response from Harry, jealousy and bitterness, he should be delighted that Taylor received that protection, it shows when there is a credible threat our security services are immediately there as they would be for him if the threat level was deemed necessary, it literally proves RAVEC’S decision.

But Harry does get security, almost certainly at a high level. No-one in the security services wants to risk him being injured or killed, any more than they would with William or Charles. It seems as if he just wants to know what the official risk assessment is so that he can find something to moan about in it. It would be quite fun if it said "He's such a twat that he's doubled the risk, so we will give him more security than we do to any other member of the RF".

Yes I would be interested to see these racist headlines from the British press, so far no one has been able to provide any, Oprah couldn’t either and had to make them up, she had her knuckles wrapped on that one.

Is he an American citizen? Or trying to be? There could be an argument that he has no fundamental right to return to the U.K. Meghan and Lilibet are definitely American citizens so it applies even more to them

Yep. We will see them at funerals and that will be it

As pp have said, if something were to happen and he needed to come to the UK at short notice, he would get security at short notice. He will never be without taxpayer funded protection.
He will always be provided with the VIP lounge at the airport and a private limousine.
The "near catastrophic car chase" will make no difference to that.

Please no!

This thread has remained on track and has been great to read so far.

Please let's not have it degenerate into the millionth discussion about tabloid headlines from 7 years ago!