RAVEC - Prince Harry

[pilates]

Can someone explain to me the procedure and how this works?

I agree with the key point that you are making, which appears to be taking a bit of time to sink in, for some.

And there is a real risk here for H - that the evidence emerging at this JR is suggestive that, if and where strict processes were not followed by Ravec, they tended toward giving H preferential treatment. That would be quite the Pyrrhic victory.

in relation to his libel case. he did make the offer, he clearly expected a member of Ravec present when he made it, to pass that on

Happy to be corrected here, Iwantcakeeveryday, but I don't think the libel case involves them denying he made the offer - isn't it more about them saying he just did it to make his case look better (hence "honest opinion" and all that)?

don't these people represent them though, at the ravec meetings and with the govt. whether or not they knew it would be rejected, they knew he had offered it. I do think Harry relied on these members of staff in a way he shouldn't have, and that he should have had independent legal advice much sooner, representing him and only him, officially. Similar sort of thing happened with the hacking case and a 'secret agreement'. He was ignorant of so many things, having been institutionalised all his life.

Does RAVEC hear submissions from the person whose security they are reviewing?

I mean, it's not a body that you can just apply to for protection, so why would they?

its about when he made the offer, yes.

'However, in a Home Office document prepared for a February 2022 preliminary hearing in Harry’s security claim, the department said his offer of private funding “notably was not advanced to Ravec” at the time of the duke’s visit in June 2021, or in any pre-action correspondence.'

Prince Harry loses bid to throw out Mail’s defence to libel claim (msn.com)

I read that to mean that the offer wasn't made to RAVEC - presumably by Young - AND also wasn't made by the lawyers acting for Harry in the correspeondance leading up to the start of legal action to challenge RAVEC's decision.

So even if Young should have made the offer to RAVEC - although as I've said above, given RAVEC decided to provide security without Harry having to pay when it was needed, I don't see why Young would have made the offer to pay - Harry's lawyers then failed to make that offer to RAVEC as well.

Unless I have read that wrong?

From court reports yesterday. Direct quotes from the Judge. The last para is especially relevant.

Mr Justice Nicklin said: 'There is a real prospect that the Defendant [Mail On Sunday] will succeed in demonstrating that this was a misleading description of the issues in the JR claim, arguably promoted because it was hoped to show the Claimant's [H's] JR claim in a positive light, whereas a portrayal of the JR claim as the Claimant trying to force the Government to reinstate his (taxpayer funded) State security risked his appearing in a negative light.

'I anticipate that, at trial, the Defendant may well submit that this was a masterclass in the art of 'spinning'.

'And, the Defendant argues, it was successful in misleading and/or confusing the public.'

'Having now seen the sequence of events, in my judgment, the Defendant does have a real prospect of demonstrating that an honest person could have held the view that this was precisely what was being done on the Claimant's behalf.'

Well I don’t think that Harry has been treated very well by his family as it happens. It would have only taken a little bit of effort and advance thought to think about his future role, and what it would be once he was married, to head off all of these difficulties. Having been at the heart of the RF for years, he deserved to be taken seriously. But I don’t think anyone cared enough.

Harry will always be the monarch’s son or brother. Therefore central - in status if not rank - to the throne. It’s so unwise, not to mention unkind, to turn their backs on him and hope he goes away.

I think Charles tended to put the wishes of his former mistress ahead of those of his son or sons, and that hurt and rejection is now being played out several decades down the line.

I also don’t think it would have been a bad thing if they had been allowed a new roving ambassador role. Harry and Meghan are great at meeting and greeting. Why not do something different and modernise?

The “half in/half out” role was practised by the York sisters for years!

Lastly, I can’t understand how others cannot see how the establishment use the press and sm (including Mumsnet sometimes) and other means
to completely ostracise and turn their backs on anyone who challenges the status quo, in order to protect their own interests.

Harry and Meghan have been the focus of a complete annihilation job by the British press - it’s obvious that someone in power has pressed the “destruct” button - and I will always have sympathy for someone who is subject to that onslaught. It’s bullying in the most vile form.

I think Harry is brave to challenge the press. It may not be a wisest move for him but I think he has very few boats left to burn at this stage.

I think his accusations about the institution of the monarchy - about the briefing against them and the racism towards his wife - have some basis in truth but people don’t believe him because, contrary to popular belief, he has had to be quite circumspect about what he said and the reality is a lot worse than what he described!

If you read his book it bears virtually no relation to what has been written in the press and wasn’t hugely controversial. For example, his point about killing Taliban was exactly the opposite to how it has been reported. And then we see the incorrect version spouted on here again and again until
people believe it.

I sincerely hope Harry can carve out a role of substance for himself with Meghan at his side and I hope being rejected by an entire nation and his closest family do not result in disastrous consequences for him in terms of his morale and mh.

On the subject of "A listers" speaking up for H&M I found the list below

Again someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think any of them have had much to say about them recently - and certainly not people like Serena and Hilary Clinton?

https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/celebrities-react-meghan-markle-prince-harry-oprah-interview-b923107.html

Completely agree.

It’s bullying in the most vile form.

It is, and on a scale that nobody else would be capable of, but the royal family and the British press when they work together.

I think Harry is brave to challenge the press. It may not be a wisest move for him but I think he has very few boats left to burn at this stage.
No, not wise in terms of living a peaceful life just now, and he won't win everything which will cause more headlines with every loss ( while every win is glossed over including on here ) but I hope the fact some of it will be going to a trial, will change how others might be treated. It's important to note, that Harry isn't the only one doing this, and those like Baroness Lawrence who aren't born into these kinds of roles, are even braver to take on the press.

@Sheepskinthrow

Great post from you. Very patient too, given you are responding to a one sentence nob calling post! Throwing around endless insults like nob, thick, stupid, entitled means nothing. It doesn't contribute to a discussion. It's juvenile.

Agree on your take on Spare. All some people have done is focus on the leaked in advance bits... it bears no resemblance to the book at all, but if you don't read it cover to cover you won't know that. It's easier just to call him a nob!

I've read it. Boring in parts, interesting in parts, annoying in parts

I so like your last para. I think he is brave and I think the best thing they did was to leave. The institution of the Monarchy comes before the people actually in it. Yes to bullying of them, and that's why I support them. I am sure they will continue to carve out a role for themselves and I wish them well.

You didn't read it wrong, @parksandrecs; none of us know the real details of Young's involvement, but it's definitely been confirmed that no offer from Harry was made before the legal action started, and that's the basis of the libel case ... ANL's "honest opinion" is that he only did it to shore up his claim, Harry didn't like that and so he's suing them

And for whoever asked about timings, I'm pretty sure it's been said the libel case is likely to be heard early in 2025, whereas the next hearing on RAVEC's judicial review is slated for this coming January

Totally this Iwantcakeeveryday suddenly the Daily Fail is the fount of all accurate reporting; but only when it applies to H & M of course!

So whether Edward Young did/didn't, should/shouldn't have told RAVEC Harry had/hadn't offered to pay is irrelevant?

Because Harry's lawyers did not make that offer either, acting on his instructions, when in contact with RAVEC prior to starting legal proceedings? i.e. he had every opportunity to make the offer to RAVEC himself?

I hope the fact some of it will be going to a trial, will change how others might be treated. It's important to note, that Harry isn't the only one doing this, and those like Baroness Lawrence who aren't born into these kinds of roles, are even braver to take on the press

Definitely agree with this, Iwantcakeeveryday, though it's also why I worry about Harry's involvement

Unlike with him we have no reason to wonder if the rest are lying about the circumstances, but while I hope it doesn't happen, I'm still concerned that any media "win" against him might tip the balance against the others

The “half in/half out” role was practised by the York sisters for years!

Neither of the 'York sisters' carries out engagements as official representatives of the Monarchy.

That is the crucial difference.

So no, they never had a 'half in half out' role.

That seems to be a logical conclusion, based on the report in Telegraph today.

I posted it upthread but here it is again. (Archive.ph and flight mode advice as per.)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2023/12/08/keeping-sussexes-safe-paramount-importance-late-queen-aide/

MN no likey my linky ^^

It was to the Telegraph as well.

Young should definitely not have mentioned money at this stage as it would have tainted the decision as it was irrelevant to the decision making or worse biased the decision. Plus had they decided it could be bought it would immediately bring into dispute that if it is needed then why are you asking for payment. As well as its own recollections may vary on the depth of the meaning of payment.

This is where I disagree with you. I don't automatically assume Harry is a liar just because he is the son and grandson of actual known liars. I have no reason to think he would lie about what he knew about phone hacking- which is what that case is about. We already know they hacked his father and brother, so it's not exactly hard to believe it, is it. Wonder why they didn't hack and bug Andrew, might have helped with the whole Epstein connection....

I believe harry is a liar as he has been caught out on multiple lies. Simple’s really.

I’ve criticised Harry and Meghan for their air miles catching private jets and no one has called me a racist for doing so.

Aren't you the lucky one then, I wonder why, hmmmm ! Because others do get cat-called as being racist for saying a lot less., guess it depends on what side of the fence you appear to be on generally.

I think the whole 'Young should have done XYZ' is a red herring, to deflect attention from Harry not offering to pay (through his lawyers) until he had launched his legal case and was getting accused of wanting taxpayers to fund his lifestyle.

It is always a worry to come to the same conclusion as the DM on any subject 😂but, as I've said before, even a stopped clock is right twice a day!

Thats not true though is it. I see people calling out actual racism and that actual racism being ignored usually, or denied, but nobody gets called racist for frivolous things. Indeed you can't even call someone racist when they've actually been racist here, MNHQ will label that a personal attack even if they deleted the racism themselves!

@Iwantcakeeveryday if you have examples of this, can you let us know, please?