Meghan Markle Archetype podcast

[susan12345678]

Meghan's long-awaited podcast has launched. Sorry if there's a thread about this already. Has anyone listened to it yet? Thoughts?

There have been several examples of that now - and she goes against the norm every time. When the expectation is to be grateful, she isn't. When the expectation is to praise your hosts, she doesn't. When the expectation is to keep quiet, she cant. She is out of step with cultural norms and societal mores, many of them universal (not insulting your hosts is one of the first rules that children learn everywhere). This is the reason why people want to discuss M. Whether M's particular brand of bucking convention will be rewarding for her remains to be seen.

This is an interesting one and I think at the core for royalist. These are not what is expected now in society, but what is expected of an RF member. Grateful, praising, keep quiet etc.

But

From what she has said, I think M would have been fine with all this. She does however point out that she was told she would be protected, told her friends not to interfere as she is being protected. I think that is at the core of it.

There is evidence that protection is being done for some. A helpline, denials of minor things like botox and hair extensions etc. The palace tells the press to lay off some people Sophie etc. Sex offences are paid off etc.

Except she then finds out that not only is she not getting the protection, but entities within the palace are actually working against her. Dan Wottoon has a very sensitive and accurate scoop on what they will do for instance - he also admits that the RF are the ones who gave it to him and had been briefing against MM. She and H take a private jet and are slaughter for it, but someone advises another member of the family, to show off how wrong H&M were by pulling a (failed) budget flight. Not showing any protection, but instead, actively working against her.
Yes, they are treated differently.

In the meantime things get so bad we have have MPs and Women Lawyers (even Elton John ffs) trying to protect them. From the palace it's all crickets .

Btw, I find it ridiculous that the different houses are fighting because the line of succession is clear. HMQ, PC, W and G to follow.

That is why I alway say it was a stupid idea to smear H&M. Let them get the younger generation and minorities on side.
In my view M may have a good and strong personality, she most certainly has great working ethics, this would have been good to show for the RF, surely. She should have been treated like Sophie and I think that would have been fine with her. She is clever enough to know how the rules work. Even if the public like her, we are all aware and so is she, that the line goes one way. W has his spares in the form of his children, so no one expected H to be anywhere near the throne.
No need to brief against her.

Yes, interesting. Maybe more about changing societal mores, though. For younger people being honest about your feelings is valued more than the stiff upper lip thing. Add in the upper-class-Brits/LA-celeb culture clash as well.

You see it too with Donald Trump and Boris Johnson: politicians who revel in stomping all over the old polite conventions, and a voting public who enjoy it.

Frightening really, isn’t it?

I don't think Meghan would have been happy to be treated like Sophie. After a dreadful start Sophie has kept her head down for 20 years, never makes anything about herself and does not seek a global platform for her own views.

The dreaded stereotype "making it about herself'.

Can you name a time when she diid this while a working member of the rf ?

Talking to Tom Bradbury for starters !

She wouldn’t have been happy to be treated like Sophie, perhaps she wanted to be treated like Kate, or the way she perceived Kate was being treated, or more likely the way an ‘a-lister’ would have been treated on a publicity tour

She doesn’t understand that Kate and the Queen would have stayed in the same accomodation, and thanked their hosts and in her role she’s not an ‘a-lister’ in the Hollywood sense

She acted like she was being shortchanged in some way. She would rather stay in a gorgeous hotel and the royal family foot the bill rather than some ‘housing unit’ and was mad about it. Hi

Perhaps some media stories have been unfair, and I haven't followed all the ins and outs as closely as some others, but what stood out for me was the way H & M behaved at the Commonwealth service, the one where Meghan wore the green dress.

They were so upset about not parading in with the senior royals, that William and Kate felt compelled to withdraw from the parade too, just to appease their fragile egos. But the programs with the order of procession had already been printed, so everyone could see what had happened.

And then they literally pushed their way between the chairs at the end to make sure they were in front of Edward and Sophie on the parade out. It was embarrassing. Later, when Meghan met with Gloria Steinem and talked about being linked not ranked, it reminded me of the Commonwealth service, which was all about defending their perceived ranking in the hierarchy.

There have been several examples of that now - and she goes against the norm every time. When the expectation is to be grateful, she isn't. When the expectation is to praise your hosts, she doesn't. When the expectation is to keep quiet, she cant.
I agree , Anyone remembers the visit to Canada house to personally thank Canadian High Commissioner for making their stay so welcome.
and now this revelation that the SA trip wasn’t as good or welcoming?

I think you have hit the nail on the head . She wanted to be treated the same as Catherine. That was evident when she complained to OW about Archie not being Prince the same as the Cambridge children .
The Commonwealth Service was a glaring example when they made a fuss about not being part of the procession so W and C agreed not to but the programmes had already been printed .
I have absolutely no proof but I am convinced that they didn’t attend the PJ concert etc as they were unhappy about being pushed aside at the Abbey service.

What ?

Bradby follows Harry to Lesotho and SA everytime (I think every decade or something). He always takes him aside for a personal talk, usually involving him personally and ask about him as a person - H talked at length in them (the pressures of being royal etc.)

The same formula was done for W. One I remember of him in his gap year, cleaning toilets etc. he was also taken aside to talk about himself and family.

That is why I was a bit shocked when M was dragged through the mud for the exact same formula that is constantly used.

That is why I was a bit shocked when M was dragged through the mud for the exact same formula that is constantly used

Wasn't she just criticised for saying that no-one ever asked if she was ok?

It seemed a bit solipsistic in the context of a visit to people living in poverty etc

But when you are a black female, particularly in the US, you and your cultural heritage has not had any part in developing those societal norms, they all belong to the white culture, so they may not be yours.

But when you are a black female, particularly in the US, you and your cultural heritage has not had any part in developing those societal norms, they all belong to the white culture, so they may not be yours

Yes, but as someone else pointed out, some societal norms like being gracious towards a host are pretty universal - as the South African situation illustrates

Her father is white, and she was largely brought up by him, so would have been exposed to both cultures.

Am I confused in thinking that what I would consider to be basic courtesy, is not a societal norm within the black culture? Just that I've never noticed a difference in my everyday life.

Whilst I think @MaulPerton post is interesting and certainly a different angle to think about. I’m not sure this is the case with this couple. There is nothing wrong with trying to break old fashioned societal norms but the way you go about it is key. If that is what she wants to do fair play but, she is not going to change the royal family or anything else by being disrespectful to the point where you aren’t just insulting the very monarchy that they earn earning a very nice living from but other countries too. If she wants to go into politics (or any other very public platform) then she needs to learn diplomacy and accept cultural norms even though inside she may feel differently, she needs to be much more Michelle Obama and a lot less Trump. I think at lot of what she says and does just comes from a mindset of entitlement and her (and his) personal grievances seep into their other work. It’s still very unclear what they want to do and what it is that is most important to them.

Didn't they say that she was offered the opportunity to carry on working, but she didn't want to? M & H portrayed it as the RF basically saying that they couldn't afford them. With a £56,000 engagement dress, I sort of get where they're coming from!

Interesting that you landed on Michelle Obama rather than Barack as the alternative to Trump 🙂

I think in society it goes a lot deeper than that.

I see a parallel in women's struggles. There is still not equality for women within our culture even though we have some laws in place to attempt it. It's the same for black culture. History in the UK for example effectively ignores many contributions that women have made in history. And doesn't recognise art by women that are traditionally 'women's work' like couture and quilting.

Having a job where you are relied on by others or high profile or your pay is needed so your family eats means that you just have to get on with it. I would expect to go to work after a near miss - I was rear ended on my way to work with baby in the back seat, I just had to sort it and get to work. I am surprised that Meghan feels she is so fragile - she comes across as exceptionally diligent, professional and hard working.

Megan talks about ambition and Royal family - did she expect to join as Duchess and get promoted perhaps ahead of Catherine or the Queen. What was her ambition when in the Royal Family?

She talks about Serena controlling the words on her retirement announcement and I think this is something Megan needs, control, which isn't something she could have in the Royal family. It is hierarchical. If she thought that she could change that then she is either deluded or arrogant.

Harry's appearance is just to highlight the Royal connections. Given Serena has so many coaches and advisors, can't imagine going to Harry for advice.

Housing unit - definitely implies she didn't think the accommodation was adequate but I can't believe that the Royals were made to stay somewhere unsafe, especially from a security perspective. Given their subsequent residences, perhaps it didn't meet the standard and have 14 bathrooms??

I think all of this really highlights the power of words. Some words look so innocent but are really charged. It reminds me of the controversy of a presenter calling Meghan ‘uppity’. I cannot state if he used it aware of the racial connotations or not but I myself did not consider or know it could be offensive to say to black people.

And Jan Moir using the term ‘mutt’ in her article. I thought it was rude to call Harry a ‘dumb mutt’ implying he was stupid and Meghan’s loyal lapdog. But others assumed it was being used as a mixed race slur against bi-racial Meghan.

I can understand why Meghan used the words ‘housing unit’ as in meaning it was one big house with separate rooms/apartments within. But I can also understand people being annoyed that she (whether intentionally or not) downplayed being housed in a mansion, especially in a developing country where such a word can be misconstrued as being akin to being in a slum.

Also, following on from this tangent on linguistics, i think it is apparent that Meghan is mixing up archetypes and stereotypes. I know she is trying to make a play on words with her Archewell foundation but it makes her appear so uneducated when that is literally the whole point of her podcast.

I think Kate was and probably still is the main issue and tbh I have a sneaky sympathy and understanding for it. Very difficult to forever have to play second fiddle to someone you have little respect or liking for when you are self made - I know her Dad paid for her education but parents are supposed to aren't they? The rest of what she has is all down to her own ambition and hard work. I couldn't do it.

I think that’s all well and good if that was exactly the running order but it isn’t. There were many complex interdynamics going on at the time. And we don’t know because we weren’t there. What we do know is Harry doesn’t seem to talk to any of his family bar the one who seems to be one of those who manages to get on with anyone. Eugenie seems one of those special people and seems adored by all of her family. Beatrice for instance doesn’t seem to have anything to with him.

There is a lot we don’t know and the fairest and most accurate thing to say is that she thought it was something it wasn’t and when it wouldn’t bend to be what she wanted it to be she couldn’t stand it. Look I couldn’t stand it. Also to be fair the media say they the houses were defending them.

If it is such a loss by the firm, that Harry claimed, I am dying to see Meghan use all these talents in a way that gets her proper recognition. I don’t think it’s controversial to say at this point that we are no where near that.

There is nothing wrong with trying to break old fashioned societal norms but the way you go about it is key. If that is what she wants to do fair play but, she is not going to change the royal family or anything else by being disrespectful to the point where you aren’t just insulting the very monarchy that they earn earning a very nice living from but other countries too

Spot on

Many of us don't blame H&M in the least for leaving if that's what they wanted to do, but there are ways of going about these things and for me their behaviour isn't it

Some find this brave and standing up for what's right and others consider it rude and graceless, but within generally accepted norms I'm not convinced their approach is one that brings lasting success, though it certainly earns some passing bankable notoriety

As for political ambitions, forget it. In a sphere that's filthier than most broad shoulders, an appearance of empathy with the general public and an ability not to be caught lying are essential, and neither appear to qualify