Prince Andrew thoughts

[Reduceddutiesboredom]

Maybe he’ll stop hiding behind his mummy now…

PA has been asked by VG's lawyers to provide proof of his inability to sweat.
No, that's not a joke.
Also documents related to the travel to and from Tramp nightclub
And they demand that he names anyone that he met at Pizza Express in Woking.

I don't think JE or PA were/are 'paedophiles' in the sense of being attracted to pre-pubescent children. There is a term for being attracted to post-pubescent young teenagers that escapes me though.

What I do think is that historically (in my lifetime - I'm mid 40s) sex with pre-pubescents has always been viewed as absolutely wrong, but sex with 'consenting' 15 year olds, for example, was often seen as some kind of grey area. 'If there's grass on the wicket you can play cricket' and so on.
Obviously a totally disgusting attitude and morally abhorrent.

I think people like JE were for a long time able to operate in this 'grey area', where the physical development and age of the children they were abusing somehow lessened and negated what they were doing. I imagine most of the men who made use of his services existed in this 'grey area' too - these girls weren't physically children and they were 'willing' so what's the problem?

Rousette - I think PA is lying. I suppose the question is did he know that she was trafficked from the age of 15.

@littleburn its's ephebophilia - attraction to teens, typically age 15-19

There's also hebephilia for attraction to teens who are still early adolescent typically 10-14

He should co-operate and just get it over and done with. The sooner the better. Then the media can have their day and those involved can just get on with their lives.

That's a simplistic view but it's about time it all ended. This has been dragging on for far too long.

@Phantom1

He should co-operate and just get it over and done with. The sooner the better. Then the media can have their day and those involved can just get on with their lives.

That's a simplistic view but it's about time it all ended. This has been dragging on for far too long.

Co operate with who about what though?

He should co-operate and just get it over and done with. The sooner the better. Then the media can have their day and those involved can just get on with their lives

That won't happen. Not in a million years. Whatever he has done, he thinks he has done nothing wrong. He will fight this tooth and nail, all aided and abetted by his family and paid for by us. Just one of the US lawyers was costing something like £3K an hour, let alone all the rest. He has dragged the RF into disrepute all on his own.

rubicscubicle they are both not wearing the same clothes in the first picture as in the second! Maxwells top has sleeves in the first pic

rubicscubicle I am really glad you posted those photos as it is important to see how many people were around these girls, who clearly looked more like children than adults.

@BonnesVacances those pictures really do show her age, compared to the one that is frequently published in newspapers. Shocking.

I do believe its still innocent until PROVEN guilty in this country ?

Yes, and your point is?

He is fighting a civil case with huge repurcussions. He is not co-operating, he is blocking every single step of the way, he is denigrating the woman bringing the case to make himself look better..... whether he is innocent or not, the optics are appalling for the son of our Monarch. Would you agree?

news.sky.com/story/prince-andrews-accuser-virginia-giuffre-insists-she-is-us-resident-and-so-lawsuit-can-continue-12506626

@thereisonlyoneofme that is the threshold for a criminal conviction. In a court. By an actual member of the judiciary.

Laypeople with no powers to imprison someone are allowed to think whatever they want.

It grinds my gears when people trot out 'innocent until proven guilty' to shut down a very legitimate discussion.

It grinds my gears when people trot out 'innocent until proven guilty' to shut down a very legitimate discussion

Me too. It's just a way of stopping discussion on what is, a case with massive repurcussions. I'm not sure what the posters who keep saying this expect in response.

It's especially grinding in sexual abuse and rape cases as it seems to imply that the victim is lying

According to the Telegraph, Prince Andrew says there are no witnesses to corroborate his claim that he was at Pizza Express on the night he allegedly abused Virginia Giuffre & also that he has no documents regarding the “peculiar medical condition” that prevents him from sweating

How can he not have medical records? What a load of bollocks.

Just to put this in to context.... I'm not sure if you all have the NHS app, I'm sure you do. On it, it shows your medical records, sometimes you have to request for them to be shown.
I won't go into detail but 55 years ago I had a nasty accident that involved an injury and a hospital stay (all fine after a while). I was gobsmacked to look on the NHS app and to see details of this childhood accident on there. (sorry to ramble on!)

So don't tell me PA, a member of the RF, doesn't have medical records on this... that is laughable if he thinks anyone will believe him. Apparently, you can die if you don't sweat!

Here is the link to the article
www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2021/12/31/prince-andrews-accuser-asks-duke-submit-evidence-inability-sweat/

I guess the NHS app was an oversight in his dilligent research....

Do the royal family keep detailed medical records? I mean they know pretty much everything will be published about them sooner or later right? Or is there a precedent for privacy?

He stated earlier he did have evidence where he was that night his security keep records of all his movements so we know there is proof out there

There would be some kind of record of when he saw a doctor, and even if he doesn't have a document at present giving information on that, it should be relatively straightforward for the doctor to provide a statement. Security records will probably be able to confirm date/time of appointments

And information on close protection might neeed to be redacted on security grounds, but the salient point - confirmation that he was in Woking - should again be straightforward (call the officers X, Y and and Z like they do in other legal proceedings where people in sensitive roles cannot be named).

@PurpleOkapi

I think he probably slept with her, but I don't necessarily think he's lying about it. I think he's probably slept with so many women over the course of his life that he honestly doesn't remember all of them. Being famous, and especially being royalty, will get someone unlimited one-night stands if they're so inclined. I also don't particularly care, because I think 17 is plenty old enough to decide whether you want to have sex with someone. Nothing in VG's own version of events indicates that Andrew himself did anything to force her or had any reason to know that she (supposedly) didn't really want to do it.

17 is perfectly old enough to know if you want to have sex or not if you are with a boyfriend and going home to your own stable family every night. But it isn't old enough to manage the pressures and expectations put on you by much older, much wealthier manipulative people who have removed you from your home, family and friends and make it subtly clear at all times that you are at their disposal and they hold all the power. Under these conditions, you don;t really have a choice whether to sleep with some cheesy royal or not. The power imbalance is absolutely beyond you.

The Woking pizza story whether proved true or not doesn't really help as he would have driven back to London and could have gone out after that. Apparently there was a witness at the nightclub: www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/aug/04/witness-claims-seen-prince-andrew-mayfair-club-virginia-giuffre

Do the royal family keep detailed medical records? I mean they know pretty much everything will be published about them sooner or later right? Or is there a precedent for privacy?

Doubtful. Data Protection is pretty hot for them I'm sure.

They would need detailed medical records. They need to constantly have their health monitored and any genetic health problems looked at. They have the best medical care ensuring they often live to 100 or more!

@DuncinToffee

According to the Telegraph, Prince Andrew says there are no witnesses to corroborate his claim that he was at Pizza Express on the night he allegedly abused Virginia Giuffre & also that he has no documents regarding the “peculiar medical condition” that prevents him from sweating

Maybe its closed or the staff are all different, or not contactable

But then again, surely one of his daughters, his bodyguard, his PA or the family of the birthday kid would be able to confirm?

It is very strange, although I still think he's guilty of nothing more than being a prat