Handmaids Tale season 4 for discussion (SPOILERS)

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What did we all think? I was a bit ??? when she was captured again!!

@AnotherEmma

"I also believe that June realised that she couldn't be a good mother to Nicole without Hannah"

I have never understood this. Ever since she gave Nicole to Emily to take to Canada, to stay behind in the vain hope of rescuing Hannah against all odds, I have never understood it. If you are suffering from the loss of one child why give the other one away?! No amount of rejecting Nicole will help her get Hannah back.

The thinking is that at least Nicole will be safe and loved in Canada whilst her other child Hannah, is being brought up by nutcases in a totalitarian regime. It was a selfless act.

No I disagree. Children need their mothers. Nichole would have been better off with her mother. It made absolutely no difference to Hannah whether June was in Gilead or not - either way she wasn't with her.

I don't think it was selfless at all, I think June has very much struggled to be a mother to Nichole because of her grief at being separated from Hannah and because of her trauma. She is not being selfish as such but you can't make a selfless decision when your emotions are involved to that extent.

But in Gilead Nichole wouldn't have been with June, she would have been raised by the Waterfords. June would have been moved on to another 'placement' and have no part and no influence in her life.

June didn't want her child, as the 'adopted' child of a high ranking Commander, to be moulded into a Gilead wife. Or worse yet, end up a Handmaid.

We seem to be talking at cross purposes.
The way I see it, June could have chosen to escape Gilead with Nichole, but she chose to stay in Gilead without her.
Of course I'm not arguing that she shouldn't have got Nichole out (with or without her).

@AnotherEmma

We seem to be talking at cross purposes. The way I see it, June could have chosen to escape Gilead with Nichole, but she chose to stay in Gilead without her. Of course I'm not arguing that she shouldn't have got Nichole out (with or without her).

I don't think I could abandon one child in Gilead...not if the smallest could be safe elsewhere with my husband. No...I'd stay and try to get my other child out. It's obviously a very personal thing.

But on another point...I didn't realise last week was the finale!! I'm there's no episode!

I've just watched the last episode. Another one who like it.

I'd forgotten the made up message Fred thought he and his buddies were clever to make up. It and the regime he created (such as the killing of rapists by handmaids) came and bit him in the arse didn't it.

Or should that be bit him in his tongue.

As for children need their mother, yes but it doesn't need to be the woman who gave birth to them as shown several times Nicole had a good, safe and comfortable set up with Moria and Luke.

How could June be a reasonable mother now, no matter how much she wants it, she's been destroyed- just as Hannah has been - she knows Nocole has a better life without her.

I'm still thinking that June will head back to Gilead on her own next season. Or at least flit in and out of Gilead as part of Mayday/the Resistance. I'd love to see her form a band of 'Maqui'-like fighters.

I'm hoping that she's somehow able to hook up with Esther and they'll "Cry havoc, and let loose the dogs of war".

A friend is saying she doesn't think Fred is dead. Left for dead, sure. I can't honestly say that I remember anyone checking for a pulse or anything.🤷🏼‍♀️

He has to be dead, surely?!

Just reading the C4 thread and what the guys have to say after watching the first episode of season 4 - in hindsight (& from reading their comments) I think that episode set up the finale nicely with how June got the young wife to kill her rapist.

June is traumatised (probably beyond repair) and is a warrior now - she would struggle with anything else!

It showed Fred as being without a head did it not? Or was his face covered by a hood?

@AcrossthePond55

I'm still thinking that June will head back to Gilead on her own next season. Or at least flit in and out of Gilead as part of Mayday/the Resistance. I'd love to see her form a band of 'Maqui'-like fighters.

I'm hoping that she's somehow able to hook up with Esther and they'll "Cry havoc, and let loose the dogs of war".

A friend is saying she doesn't think Fred is dead. Left for dead, sure. I can't honestly say that I remember anyone checking for a pulse or anything.🤷🏼‍♀️

But wasn't he hanging on the wall? I'm pretty sure he's dead, and I have the feeling Joseph Fiennes probably doesn't want to return to film a fifth season.

I don't remember anything but his (indistinct) body laying in the shadows in the woods. I don't remember him being headless nor on the wall.

I have to admit I was so shocked by that scene that I honestly don't have specific memories of it! There have been other episodes that have had the same effect on me. I usually remember the 'jist' of them but not the specifics. I'll probably go back and rewatch the finale after I've 'put it to bed' in my mind as I've done with other episodes.

SPOILER FOR NEXT SEASON....SKIP THE REST OF THIS POST IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW.....

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I just saw an item in which Joseph Fiennes said he was 'glad to be done' with Fred, or words to that effect. So I guess Fred is dead.

Hi just watching the first episode of the latest series , can someone explain the farm they are on and why that commander is allowing them to be there?

I'm not sure how they found the farm (assume Mayday) but the commander has dementia and doesn't really know what's going on and his wife is mayday (his wife is poisoning him, so not necessarily dementia but similar)

Didn't want to go back and watch again, might do the a rewatch at some point before the next season but found an article that confirms Fred is headless and hanging on a wall:
Seeing the message written beneath Fred’s mangled body proves two things. For starters, it confirms June and the other women killed him, decapitated him, and hung him on the wall themselves.

To the recent posters, if you're watching on C4, this is thread you need:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/telly_addicts/4275683-The-Handmaids-Tale-S4-at-C4-pace-no-spoilers-from-Hulu-subscribers

All the previous chat on this thread will contain spoilers because we all watched it as it was released on Hulu (ie we've all watched to the end).

@ArabellaStrange

Didn't want to go back and watch again, might do the a rewatch at some point before the next season but found an article that confirms Fred is headless and hanging on a wall: Seeing the message written beneath Fred’s mangled body proves two things. For starters, it confirms June and the other women killed him, decapitated him, and hung him on the wall themselves.

OMG I do NOT remember seeing that at all! The last scene I remember seeing that had anything to do with Fred's death was his body lying in the woods. I wonder if somehow I looked away from the screen or something.

If Fred is headless, how is he hanging on the wall? It must be pretty gruesome. That's a rhetorical question, I think I'll have to rewatch it tonight.

I rewatched and caught that scene. Isn't it funny, I seem to have either blanked it from my head or possibly I was so caught up in June leaving Nichole and Luke that it didn't stick in my memory.

He isn't headless (does look it though) there was a sack over his head - as those how are put on the wall are.

Painted underneath he was "“Nolite te bastardes carborundorum" the phrase June found in season 1 that Fred and his school friends made up.

I thought he was headless - is he really not?

Loved that the Nolite phrase was written on the wall! It gave June strength in season 1 & made her feel much less alone & not letting the bastards grind her down was exactly what she did!

I was watching on my laptop and that 'area' of the shot was really shadowed. If he wasn't headless (in which case what was he hanghing from ) it looked like his head was pretty, well, bashed in.

After rewatching the episode and seeing again the scene between Serena and Tuello and his reaction to her saying she plans to live with Fred, and then the one between Fred and Tuello where Fred says that his death won't get Tuello what he wants, I'm beginning to think that the baby is Tuello's. And he certainly can't do anything about it without losing his job.

@ContinuousMonotoneBeep

He isn't headless (does look it though) there was a sack over his head - as those how are put on the wall are.

Painted underneath he was "“Nolite te bastardes carborundorum" the phrase June found in season 1 that Fred and his school friends made up.

Unless I'm much mistaken, Fred didn't make it up. It was scrawled inside the closet in June's room. The assumption is that it was written by a previous handmaid.

Yes it was, but I'm pretty sure June asked Fred (when he was inviting June into his office) she asked him what it meant and he told her it was made up by him Nd his friends in school.

Ok take that back - I looked up a few reviews of the episode and none mentioned it so i checked the script (because I felt like i was gaslighting myself...). I misremembered - he actually mentions 12 year old boys in general and wasn't referring to himself as i thought I recalled it (it's formatted really oddly):

Can you do me a favor?
Sure.
Anything...
Within reason, of course.
I was just wondering
if you could translate
something for me.
I think it's Latin.
Nolite te bastardes
carborundorum.
(SCRABBLE TILES RATTLING)
Where'd you hear that?
Does it mean something?
(CHUCKLES) Not really.
It's a joke.
Oh?
How is it a joke?
It's only funny
if you know Latin.
Actually,
it's probably only funny
if you're a 12‐year‐old
boy studying Latin.
It doesn't really translate.
It's something like,
"Don't let the bastards
grind you down."
(CHUCKLES)
Don't let the bastards
grind you down.
Thanks.

I just watched the last 7 episodes straight. So I'm in the process of digesting it all.

But my God for me this season has been amazing, I have been crying continuously watching it all. I love Nick, I loved the June and Nick story.

I still found it hard to reconcile Nick as a commander and being responsible for the bombing in Chicago, and hated the fact that he only didn't want to do because June was there, so otherwise had no qualms in bombing all those places and killing so many people, just along as it wasn't June.

Same with commander Lawrence he's so hard to read, and pretty awful.

Then I think, well are him and nick really in it together playing a long game of changing Gilead slowly from the inside?

One thing I'm sure of though, is that they would never let Gilead go back to being American, again it comes down to power, if they can make Gilead how they want it, more humane and stuff they will, but they want to be in charge, they want to run their own country and anyone threatening that are getting in the way.

some episodes were annoying filler, and little things in them just stupid. Why get into a silo type container? not knowing what was in it or how full? just get in one of the back seats of the vehicles on the carriage in front for fucks sake. or any of the carriages that you could just off discreetly as the trained slowed somewhere, but a liquid container? with no way out?

There were lots of plot holes, but overall I loved this series and feel it's now moved on a bit, I was fed up of the previous series lack of progression and always the same.

I agree when they were stuck in Chicago I also was thinking oh no another walking dead, and almost gave up.

Fred's death had me disturbed as I was crying with emotion for them all and grinning from ear to ear (which is what disturbed me the most)

June is truly fucked up but they did this to her and it's her way of coping with everything she has seen and been through.

The kiss with Nick in front of Fred was all wrong.

Sorry that was so long, but had to start sifting through my thoughts, as been up all night watching and crying.

I.need.to.sleep.now.

another thing, when June was describing Serena to the Americans, right after June had sexual assaulted Luke. I thought it was deliberately done to show that although she was describing Serena she was also pretty much describing herself too, although I don't think she knows it herself, it was more for the viewers.

The Latin phrase is a well known made up Latin quote. My dad use to say it to me when I was teen and got upset about friends, school and stuff.

He would also add Nil desporanam before it though too.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegitimi_non_carborundum