Handmaids Tale season 4 for discussion (SPOILERS)

[BG2015]

What did we all think? I was a bit ??? when she was captured again!!

@AnotherEmma

"Is June leaving Luke? did she say "give me 5 minutes and then I'll leave" ? did she mean leave the house?"

She's going to be prosecuted for murdering Fred, so she's either going to run away or give herself up.

That's why Luke collapsed, he realised what she'd done and what it meant.

She was saying goodbye to Hannah.

Stupid, stupid ending.

I thought 'no man's land' meant that it wasn't in Canada, therefore the crime wasn't committed on their soil and it would be covered up?

I didn't like this season at all

Does anyone have a weird crush on commander Lawrence

great ending. Exactly what I would have tried to do in her June's shoes. I'm not sure what she had to leave as surely noone in Canada/US would ever hear what happened to Waterford or they'd just believe Gilead had done it.

@Fabpinky

Does anyone have a weird crush on commander Lawrence

I have a crush on Bradley Whitford, which didn't appear until I saw his grizzled beard in HT. I then went on to watch The West Wing. I prefer the grizzled BW.

June won't be prosecuted as she was in No Man's Land. As far as the Canadian and American governments know, he was handed over to Gilead. It might take a while for them to figure out that he isn't being tried.

The season was the worst. Just so bad. I just finished watching the last episode. I know the whole thing is supposed to be a little far fetched, and we have to suspend our disbelief for some of it but...

June has also become so unlikeable. I understand she has trauma, and wouldn't be expected to adapt back into normal society straight away, but she wouldn't have been allowed to have been in such close contact with the country she escaped from.

I just feel like it was a bad season. Prepared to be told I'm BU 😅 but I disliked all of it.

Also, side note: June did sexually assault Luke, and for that she's unforgivable in my eyes.

I think she knows that she's crossed Luke's personal Rubicon by murdering Fred. He may love her but he can't condone or live with what she did so she's leaving him in peace. Whether he'll turn her in is another question.

As is how Nick & Lawrence are going to explain Fred's disappearance to TPTB. Unless Gilead is considering it a 'legal' execution. I can't think of the term for 'execution via Handmaid'. Wasn't it particicution or something like that?

At first I took it to mean June was going to hand herself into the authorities. Then I thought, 'why would she?' It's unclear whose jurisdiction it would fall under, plus who would know other than those who orchestrated it?

Agreed with the above, I think it was to mark the finality of her relationship with Luke which was already in a precarious state. She knew she wouldn't find closure until she had enacted personal justice on Fred, even at the cost of her relationship.

I really liked the scene with Emily, where June is frustrated at her inability to 'move on' and be (in her opinion) a good mother. I found that really poignant and well acted.

IMO this series has suffered terribly from pacing issues, with the first three episodes of a higher calibre to the rest.

I still need to find out what happens to Janine, so I'll be watching the next season whenever it's a thing.

@touma

The season was the worst. Just so bad. I just finished watching the last episode. I know the whole thing is supposed to be a little far fetched, and we have to suspend our disbelief for some of it but...

June has also become so unlikeable. I understand she has trauma, and wouldn't be expected to adapt back into normal society straight away, but she wouldn't have been allowed to have been in such close contact with the country she escaped from.

I just feel like it was a bad season. Prepared to be told I'm BU 😅 but I disliked all of it.

Also, side note: June did sexually assault Luke, and for that she's unforgivable in my eyes.

I agree with all this.

I think the pacing issues are to do with Covid restricting shooting. Some actors couldn't get flights to where scenes were due to be shot and Joseph Fiennes said lots of his scenes were rewritten to be just him and Serena. it was also a shortened season.

Like others I think June has crossed Luke's rubicon. She knows she can't be a good mother to Nicole (it's sad because June always felt her own mother cared more about her activism and causes than she did about her). June hasn't interacted with Nicole much and there have been several shots of June looking (as an outsider) at how natural and happy Luke and Moira are with Nicole. I thought June getting Fred's blood on Nicole's cheek when she held her was symbolic of how she could taint her dd with her actions.

I guess June will start up a guerilla resistance group. I feel it's a big ask to expect Luke and Moira to bring up Nicole -Moira was always clear she didn't want children and for Luke, Nicole is June's child, she's not Hannah. I thought Luke was tone deaf in the car reminiscing about Boston(as their "home") when terrible stuff happened there for June. He doesn't really get the depth of how damaged she is (until the end).

I felt the ending was fanfic wish fulfillment, so few people get that sort of revenge on their abusers. In June's shoes I'd want Fred to suffer and she made that happen by channelling Offred.

I thought that when June went to see Fred (after he had finished giving info to the U.S.) she was going to hit the Waterford? crystal glass on the coffee table and glass Fred in the neck. I guess the chat was to remind us what a deluded creep Fred was and that June was going to go back to being strong "Offred."

I really don't know what I made of this series, especially the finale. I don't understand where it's going to go.

Some good thoughts and insights on this Reddit thread -

www.reddit.com/r/TheHandmaidsTale/comments/o0pqaz/the_handmaids_tale_s04e10_the_wilderness_prelive/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=comments_view_all

I liked this season but the last episode was just bad fanfic. The show is just The Amazing Adventures of SuperJune now, when the other characters and world of Gilead (and the world of Canada and refugees) are so much more compelling.

The fact June can just pop in and out of Gilead like she's going to get milk weakens her escape. Ditto the fact Gilead is apparently now being run by the June Osbourne Fan Club.

I wanted to see June kill Fred, but suddenly appearing with a hundred other women (who presumably didn't know Fred, and likely many of them didn't know June personally either) was just stupid. Like how does that work? Do they have a whatsapp? Did no one notice a convoy of cars driving across the border? Are all those women comfortable with violently murdering a man most of them had never met?

It would have been more poignant to see Fred go on trial and be 'fairly' executed by the same system he created.

Disappointed we didn't see Janine or any of the other characters, and disappointed we didn't get to see Serena learn about her husband.

"It would have been more poignant to see Fred go on trial and be 'fairly' executed by the same system he created."

Absolutely

Jeez, I thought it was fab. The entire season has been amazing. Agree that the 5 mins at the end was her recognising that Luke wouldn't be able to accept what she'd done.

Tbh I find it weird that he would accept her sexually assaulting him but not accept her killing the man who imprisoned and raped her, and who had key responsibility for creating the regime that took their child

The relationship was pretty much over anyway, as they're on different planets now aren't they.

Perhaps you're all right and June won't be prosecuted. She has been pretty much getting away with murder for a long time now!

I felt the ending was fanfic wish fulfillment, so few people get that sort of revenge on their abusers.

This has perfectly stated what I've been struggling to articulate. The entire season felt like fanfic. Her 1:1 meetings with Serena and Fred, getting to tell them everything she always wanted to but couldn't in Gilead. Her continuing being besties with Emily and Rita, being able to meet up with Nick and Lawrence. How Nick hasn't been put on the wall yet is beyond me.

"It would have been more poignant to see Fred go on trial and be 'fairly' executed by the same system he created. "

It may have not been a "fair" execution, but it was an execution carried out using a Gilead-based method. So IMO he was executed by the system he created.

I loved it - he was killed by the system he created. Gilead planned to kill him anyway, so made no difference to them how it was done.

I agree that Luke really didn't get what she had been through or just how traumatised she was until the end when he realised what she'd done. I also believe that June realised that she couldn't be a good mother to Nicole without Hannah but that Moira and Luke are great with her.

I also find BW very attractive as Lawrence when I've never felt that way before with WW.

He wasn't killed by the system he created. He was killed by his victim with the aid of her subversive allies working outside the system.

"I also believe that June realised that she couldn't be a good mother to Nicole without Hannah"

I have never understood this. Ever since she gave Nicole to Emily to take to Canada, to stay behind in the vain hope of rescuing Hannah against all odds, I have never understood it. If you are suffering from the loss of one child why give the other one away?! No amount of rejecting Nicole will help her get Hannah back.

She is just putting herself through more pain for no good reason. She could have escaped with Nicole and been a mother to her at least.

Is season 4 aligning with, Margaret Atwood‘s 2019 sequel to The Handmaid's Tale (1985) ‘The Testaments.’ For that, roughly 15 years after, the focus of season 5 could follow Nichole’s rescue of Hannah & subsequent reunion with June? Placing the focus more on Aunt Lydia.

Gilead created the system by which they killed Fred - salvaging / particicution (not quite sure of the name). It's exactly what they did to the rapist in the earlier season & Fred was an actual rapist. It was also used as a tool by Gilead for the women to vent their rage, again what they were doing. For June, he was her actual rapist, for the rest it was an outlet for their rage against Gilead - again, this form of justice and retribution was created by Gilead and the system Fred was integral in developing.

Re Hannah, I have never lost a child but I can't imagine that if you knew where your child was, you could simply move on with your new baby, knowing your DC was in mortal danger.

Anyway, happy to agree to disagree but I did love it all. Really want to see what had happened with Janine and also hope that Serena goes to prison and her baby adopted out to a nice Canadian family who don't hold any of her abhorrent views!

I agree the murder of Fred was supposed to represent a 'salvaging' which was the Gilead way of dealing with rapists, so I get it in that sense. I liked the ending in the way that it was quite satisfying, but overall I'm not sure I've enjoyed series 4. It's all been a bit hard to believe at times that June would have gotten away with so much, given how brutal a regime Gilead is supposed to be. For example the moment the unchained handmaids escape from the truck because there was only 1 guard who went off for a wee despite the fact that they had several of their most dangerous / high risk handmaids on board felt a bit ridiculous and completely improbable with the brutal Gilead regime which previous series have portrayed.

In some ways I think they had to move June to Canada this series to move things on a bit, but unfortunately I think moving out of Gilead and losing the day to day brutality of the Gilead regime and lifestyle means that the series seems to have lost it's power a bit.