Thread Four: Holding on to the end of the rope

[Pegsinarow]

Hello PoTs!

I am so very sorry to have been absent from the second half of thread three. I've been a overwhelmed by rl: some good, some bad and some a bit ugly!
I hope you are all doing as well as possible in the circumstances.

I saw thread three was on 998 posts and thought I had better start up thread four here!

I'll catch up in a bit but for now the previous threads were as follows:

Thread one here

Thread two here

Thread three here

Welcome back and feel free to vent here! And I'll try to stick around a bit more ... .

@Soopermum1 welcome to the thread
We are all here for similar reasons our teenagers
Read Thread 1 2 and 3 and you might feel some good advice to help.

Oh this is horrible for you, particularly the useless and enabling dad. Can I suggest you review your relationship with social services? If you are in court with the dad and CAFCASS talks to your DC, they will likely hear what your older DS is doing and CAFCASS will feel obliged to refer, for child protection reasons. You need to get there first. This is a child protection issue. You need to exclude DS by asking ss to offer him housing. The younger ones should not see him being allowed to treat you like this. Sorry to be brutal. I think this one is lost for the time being. Or you could row back, and tell DS that is what will have to happen if he won't/can't contain his aggression. Apart from anything else a neighbour could report him if they saw him kicking at your door. Again sorry to be brutal, but though you are the mum and he is in pain, this is domestic abuse of YOU.

Following up on this, though I see it's quite a slow thread. The family therapist is back working, the college have kicked DS out for non attendance but after some pressure from myself and the therapist, a social worker is coming over on Tuesday. He seems to be taking my concerns seriously, so fingers crossed...

This is a relief for you. Yes it is slow, but that's I think because everyone's so busy surviving the kids, particularly in lockdown.

@Soopermum1 I’ve been away from the thread for a while and it has slowed a lot, which is a shame it is so hard navigating the teenage years.

That’s good news that you are able to see someone on Tuesday. It’s so difficult to know what to do for the best, on one hand you want to do the best for ds on the other, and actually more important you need to protect yourself and your younger dc. I really hope you’re able to achieve something on Tuesday good luck. 💐

@soopermum1, sorry you’re having difficulties. I can identify, my DS is similar; also his Dad said for a long time that it was normal teen behaviour and reaction to my controlling nature! I guess often the Dads have issues which are hereditary; that is my theory anyway. My DS didn’t get any GCSEs he is now doing a construction course at college, however is not interested or motivated and doesn’t go half the time. How did you get a therapist involved? We could do with some support but nothing here and I am worried he will get kicked out soon..

@Fleetheart DS has had the family therapist through CAMHS since he was 12. She said she's had a lot of pressure over the years to close his case but didn't want to. We don't have much contact with her, but she has been useful in advocating for services and occasional support and advice to me. With her help in some areas I've just made myself a squeaky wheel, formal complaints, when warranted, have been useful in getting action.

The non attendance is a nightmare, right? At school there is plenty of attention on it and the parent is fully involved, but college is a hands off environment. From my experience, the student services were very geared up for students asking for help themselves.

Hello everyone. Apologies for bursting into this thread but I would like some advice and don't want nonsense from people who don't understand. Dd is 16 and has been with Cahms for 4 years. I don't want to get into the ins and outs but She has anxiety low mood is suicidal and self harms. Basically the only way to keep her safe is to smother her in love and not challenge her in anyway. But I don't think this is doing her any favours, she is failing at school and recently I found out she has been shop lifting. I challenged her again last night as she appeared in a v obviously stolen top. I am mortified, this is not acceptable at all. She then proceeded to start the whole runnng around trying to find knives and melting down. I cant see anyway out of this cycle. My marriage is in tatters I am v low and there doesn't seem to be any way to help her. Her Cahms contact is off sick and tbh I don't find them v helpful anyway. Yes asd has been discussed but not enough evidence to pursue assessment . A private consultant suggested add but I am exhausted with the conflicting advice and increasingly cynical about the mental health profession . I don't know what I want tbh I might not even reply to this thread agin so apologies in advance.

Yes exactly, they expect the students to be motivated and ask for help. My DS never asks for help and he prefers to go on “when he feels like it”! I’m trying to be hands off myself but if he gets chucked out what will he do all day? We have had problems with him taking and also selling drugs and I really don’t want him going back to that. Trouble is of course they just go their own way at 26, anything I say is not interesting and is just noise to him

*at 16 I mean!!

@fleetheart that therapist sounds a treasure we really need those people. What a pity about the college. My own experience of fe is that they very well know they have got a bunch of misfits and dropouts to deal with and often people with undiagnosed sen. I agree that they then try to make the child self advocate rather than engaging with the parent but I have had no regrets about making myself a difficult parent and constantly demanding to discuss things in the first year with them. It paid off, you have to find a friendly face there and keep trying. i wonder if some college staff know their cohort is unmotivated and use that as an opportunity to skive themselves. what i would recommend ti parents is not to let the child self register if you can help it, ensure the contact details logged at the start are your own so rhat you can keep tabs.

@ImperfectTents that's so awful for you. Try to find some time for yourself. I just lay in yesterday instead of WFH and realised that with covid we can't be all things to all men as parents. If any chore can reasonably be ditched, ditch it and treat yourself in some way.
Sorry to bang on a drum about sen but one of my greatest regrets with ds17, who does have an add diagnosis, is that we never pushed forward an asd one and particularly pathological demand avoidance, because CAMHS triage kept asserting it was just traits. In retrospect I think they are slightly conflicted by their own lack of resources, coupled with certainly my parental unwillingness at the time to accept a label. If only I had pursued that label then I could have viewed and managed the situation differently as he matured. Instead when I got to the point that I was pretty sure about pda and desperate for help, it was too late because he refused to consent to see anyone. I would urge any parent of a child who will play ball, to get a full assessment privately if they can. We had to do so with the add because the local CAMHS made him wait at age 14 for an undefined date which has not even been offered yet - that's three years and counting. He has dropped off their system. So we went to Daphne keen who is well known on mumsnet - paediatrician specialising in neurology - and her intervention (including prescribing meds) has been a game changer. I strongly recommend you try her. Now whilst she does not deal with asd, I noticed from a report she did for a friend of mine's child that she spots the signs of other conditions (including in that child's case a complex speech and language disorder) and can do referrals in quite complex cases. But the gold standard for asd is apparently the lorna wing centre which is massively expensive. Another reason I like dr keen is she has seen it all before so you get a feel for how you can survive this period by having a session with her.

Thank you @Plumbuddle . Crying again now! It's really hard to talk to anyone about this as it is incomprehensible unless you are going through it. I might try the private route again but it is eye watering lay expensive and I keep thinking it's all too late , she is definitely screwed academically . I will regroup and start again on Monday

@ImperfectTents

Thank you *@Plumbuddle* . Crying again now! It's really hard to talk to anyone about this as it is incomprehensible unless you are going through it. I might try the private route again but it is eye watering lay expensive and I keep thinking it's all too late , she is definitely screwed academically . I will regroup and start again on Monday

She’s not necessarily screwed academically. The entire education system is geared up to say your life is over if you don’t get this at this age. You could even contact the school, or a different school and ask for her to redo year 11. It’s unusual but I’ve known at least 2 people who have done it as a result of issues like these, and many mNy more who’ve hobbled through the exams, scraped the passes but not got their original requirements who’ve gone on to apprenticeship and Even university. Sending hugs and hope everything will calm down soon for you.

My kids are early 20s now and so many of their friends have suffered suicide attempts ED and SH and it’s so good to see them starting to com3 out the other side. Hang on in there

@ImperfectTents your story sounds really hard and heartbreaking, and I won't comment on most of what you've said as some of it is different to my DS and I don't want to patronise you with advice on that. What I have learned, though, and come to terms with is the academic failure. It's not a hard stop, from what I've seen and been told, there are still many options and pathways to our children achieving their potential academically and finding a job that suits them. It will likely take longer than usual, with setbacks but there are options if and when your daughter gets onto an even keel with her mental health.

Just looking at January starts for other courses for DS 🙄 God knows if he'll be in a better place to start on any of those, but the options are there.

I'm worried that when DS reaches 18, the CAMHS support will drop off. Am really hoping social services will help this time. The worker coming out on Tuesday is male and I think that will help, if he turns out to be DS's designated worker.

Personally I feel that education and job opportunities are seismically changing since well before Covid. There is this imposed sense of need to get grades for the public exams which we are all vulnerable to as aspirational parents, but the legitimacy of other qualifications is increasingly recognised and also the falseness of the educational setting. In addition it becomes easier by the day (before Covid) for people to return to education when they are mature and ready. Once you give up your hopes for your child to get those -ology results it is remarkably liberating as the main things we really want for the kids are to be secure, independent, decent, hardworking, fulfilled and contribute to society. You actually don't need super duper grades for that.

Thank you for all your kind words. Intellectually I know grades are not the be all and end all but it's hard to watch her go through school like this. We had a much better day today and she even made dinner. The occasional glimmer of hope does help me keep going.

So, we have a social worker. He took DS out for McDonalds and the short story is DS doesn't think he's doing anything wrong at all.

How did I end up with such an asshole for a son? I'm a good person, I've worked hard to instill good values in both of my children. Where the hell did it go wrong?

The social worker and I are not sure what to do next. He's focused on a safety plan for myself and DD. The thing is, he won't get violent again while I continue to back down on everything, but that's no way to live. He thinks he's invincible. Only the police can forceably remove him.

@Soopermum, have a look at the "help for psychology" site. You only have a few months to influence the autism diagnosis you are seeking before your DS is adult. I have for years thought my DS17 was PDA, but not sought a diagnosis as it seemed such a horrible label and with no good management strategies professionally available. But two things happened recently. First, one of the professionals who specialises in this field at St Thomas' hospital published a paper on PDA talking about better professional strategies being developed, and secondly, my DS17 through refusing to do dental hygiene for years has suddenly been diagnosed with a mouth chock full of tooth decay and needs root canal treatment. The dentist was nearly crying, she's known him all his life. It's at that point I realised I have a duty to seek the diagnosis even though it "sounds" bad. In order to teach him self-insight and self-management skills for adulthood. The point about the site I mention is that you can do a parental screen for free. They told me they can still treat him as a child even though he's 18 in March, so long as the process starts before 18. Use their online contact form to start the ball rolling. Yes it then costs a few hundred later down the line, but in my experience these screening processes are useful whether you get a diagnosis at the end of it or not.

I’m sorry to read of all the troubles, but I’m also relieved. I feel so alone, I don’t know what to do or how to change things. I don’t know how to describe it. Today especially, I feel as though I just don’t recognise my 14 yr old son.

He has returned from school and, obviously charged up with adrenaline, on the Xbox, and forgetting that he can be overheard, has been detailing how he has just got into a physical fight another kid and how he hurt him. He’s bragging to his mates; he’s delighted. And it is also clearly not the first time. People looking out for him have warned me about the kids he is hanging out with, but DS just says they’re his friends, which they clearly are. What does that make him?

He’s got some mild SEN which doesn’t help as he’s at an academic school that can’t be bothered with the ‘thick’ kids and he’s physically really big for his age at 6’3. He’s good at a sport, good enough to maybe make it, but he’s throwing this all away to pretend to be a gangster type with his ‘fam’ and his bros.

Where do I start. I’m terrified he’ll end up getting stabbed or something. But I can’t make him listen to me or hid dad and we can’t physically lock him in.

@Ibid

I’m sorry to read of all the troubles, but I’m also relieved. I feel so alone, I don’t know what to do or how to change things. I don’t know how to describe it. Today especially, I feel as though I just don’t recognise my 14 yr old son.

He has returned from school and, obviously charged up with adrenaline, on the Xbox, and forgetting that he can be overheard, has been detailing how he has just got into a physical fight another kid and how he hurt him. He’s bragging to his mates; he’s delighted. And it is also clearly not the first time. People looking out for him have warned me about the kids he is hanging out with, but DS just says they’re his friends, which they clearly are. What does that make him?

He’s got some mild SEN which doesn’t help as he’s at an academic school that can’t be bothered with the ‘thick’ kids and he’s physically really big for his age at 6’3. He’s good at a sport, good enough to maybe make it, but he’s throwing this all away to pretend to be a gangster type with his ‘fam’ and his bros.

Where do I start. I’m terrified he’ll end up getting stabbed or something. But I can’t make him listen to me or hid dad and we can’t physically lock him in.

Hi Ibid, maybe start with the school senco/inclusion officer? Book a meeting and go on about this being a safeguarding issue amongst the peer group. The senco with my older child who's now ASD, at school got him a mentor in a higher year, the mentor was chosen for being a lovely role model and socially sensible, to meet him weekly. But you have to have an inspirational senco sadly, otherwise you are down to outside professionals.

sorry now adult. He's always been ASD lol

Thank you for responding Plumbuddle, I appreciate it. That’s a good idea - I haven’t really been in contAct with the senco; it is a start.

I am trying not to feel hopeless, but he’s so far away from me. I feel like there’s still the person I think he is/will be is in reach, but it’s slipping further and further.

Hi there, posted a few months ago about my DD aged 13. We have had to call the police again - will this ever be resolved?

DD swears at us, punches me but this occasion hit her younger sister, threatening to self harm and kill us, taking knives into her bedroom (now hidden), or start a fire in the night. It’s relentless, steals stuff and hasn’t eaten a proper dinner for months instead eating whatever quick foods are around. We hide all goodies and DD hunts around the house for them. Waiting for CAMHS, will talk to the school again but this is so so wearying. Thinking that anger management might be a good start for her. So tired.

@WonderingFree . This is awful. Can't you jump the CAMHS queue due to urgency and danger of behaviours? If this were an adult you could get them sectioned immediately, why hasn't CAMHS got any sense of urgency when clearly this is one of the worst situations on this thread.