Thread three: holding on to the end of the rope, life in the bunker with the PoTs, where parenting a teen is adversely affecting your mental health

[Pegsinarow]

Thread one here.

Thread two here.

With thanks once more to Billybagpuss for inspiration for the title and to Ticklingcheese and many other parents of teens who are emerging from the worst, or currently going through it, this is a support thread for parents who are being driven to despair by their teens. It is a continuation of two previous threads where many of us clubbed together to exchange experiences, possible strategies and understanding of what can be a very draining, isolating and distressing time for all!

Special thanks also to McMen05 who has kept this thread running smoothly and welcomed and responded to many newcomers and returnees this summer

And thanks again to Godmother for our "club" name: the PoTs!

Several helpful things emerged from the previous threads. First, so many of us are experiencing the same challenges or extraordinarily similar behaviour from our teens, in all sorts of different households and circumstances, that it can't all be down to poor parenting, despite what a tiny fraction of posters tried to tell us! So, whilst acknowledging our own mistakes and less than perfect parenting, and trying to find solutions and expert guidance, we also need to try and ditch the guilt and feelings of failure.

Also , it is evident there isn't as much state help available for teens as required, CAMHS for example is very over-stretched and under-resourced.

It was suggested by some posters that distancing ourselves from the very personal remarks and being slightly less "available" can be helpful and Tarragonsauce said that picking our battles, addressing our own symptoms, keeping in mind (with reference to school non-attendance, exam failure, bf issues) that there is more than one way to skin a cat, and remembering that "this too shall pass" can be helpful strategies.

Daintytoes explained an extremely helpful model of parent-child interaction in thread one at 07/04/2019 23:O6 .

Finally, remember that people don't tend to talk about their tortuous times with their teens because of shame, weariness, bewilderment and fear of being misunderstood or judged, but trust me, you are NOT alone! So last but definitely not least, thank you to each and every contributor to the first and second thread. PoTs tend to arrive on the thread feeling quite raw and demoralised but depite their own distress, they help other parents and it's great to be able to share the angst.

Tin hats on everybody for round three!

_

And finally, here is the original letter posted by BillyBagpuss on the first thread:

Dear Parent:

This is the letter that I wish I could write.

This fight we are in right now. I need it. I need this fight. I can’t tell you this because I don’t have the language for it and it wouldn’t make senslee anyway. But I need this fight. Badly. I need to hate you right now and I need you to survive it. I need you to survive my hating you and you hating me. I need this fight even though I hate it too. It doesn’t matter what this fight is even about: curfew, homework, laundry, my messy room, going out, staying in, leaving, not leaving, boyfriend, girlfriend, no friends, bad friends. It doesn’t matter. I need to fight you on it and I need you to fight me back.

I desperately need you to hold the other end of the rope. To hang on tightly while I thrash on the other end—while I find the handholds and footholds in this new world I feel like I am in. I used to know who I was, who you were, who we were. But right now I don’t. Right now I am looking for my edges and I can sometimes only find them when I am pulling on you. When I push everything I used to know to its edge. Then I feel like I exist and for a minute I can breathe. I know you long for the sweeter kid that I was. I know this because I long for that kid too, and some of that longing is what is so painful for me right now.

I need this fight and I need to see that no matter how bad or big my feelings are—they won’t destroy you or me. I need you to love me even at my worst, even when it looks like I don’t love you. I need you to love yourself and me for the both of us right now. I know it sucks to be disliked and labeled the bad guy. I feel the same way on the inside, but I need you to tolerate it and get other grownups to help you. Because I can’t right now. If you want to get all of your grown up friends together and have a ‘surviving-your-teenager-support-group-rage-fest’ that’s fine with me. Or talk about me behind my back--I don’t care. Just don’t give up on me. Don’t give up on this fight. I need it.

This is the fight that will teach me that my shadow is not bigger than my light. This is the fight that will teach me that bad feelings don’t mean the end of a relationship. This is the fight that will teach me how to listen to myself, even when it might disappoint others.

And this particular fight will end. Like any storm, it will blow over. And I will forget and you will forget. And then it will come back. And I will need you to hang on to the rope again. I will need this over and over for years.

I know there is nothing inherently satisfying in this job for you. I know I will likely never thank you for it or even acknowledge your side of it. In fact I will probably criticize you for all this hard work. It will seem like nothing you do will be enough. And yet, I am relying entirely on your ability to stay in this fight. No matter how much I argue. No matter how much I sulk. No matter how silent I get.

Please hang on to the other end of the rope. And know that you are doing the most important job that anyone could possibly be doing for me right now.

Love, Your Teenager

_

❤️

Hope all our drama calms down and hibernates for the winter.

Hear hear to that!

First time on this thread and that letter resonates really powerfully with me. I'm single mum to a nearly 16yo DD and am finally learning that I can't stop her getting hurt / making mistakes / blaming me... I had a difficult relationship with my own mum who has since passed on and just want my daughter to look back on these years knowing that whatever was said and done, I was holding firm to the other end of the rope...

Having a horrific time because of problems with 19 year old Dd so I only just qualify for this thread but it's been 3 years!

Ended up asking her to leave and it's not the first time.

Last time we had lots of talking and agreed certain things had to change but within days things were back to how they were and I didn't have the strength to argue yet again.

I'm so sick of this and have absolutely no idea what to do for the best.

DD dropped out of school (wasn't totally her fault but she didn't help matters), since then it's all been going downhill.

She has a full time well paid job with good prospects which she is throwing away with bad behaviour. Calling in sick after partying or just from not taking care of herself. (I have made tons of Drs, cahms and other appointments but DD either don't go at all or go's but don't tell whole truth or don't follow advice)

Arguing not just with me (bloody constantly) but also friends she's had for ages and their now not speaking. Hear her arguing with others on the phone loads usually in early hours of morning and I have to tell her to calm down. Spending time mainly drinking with new friends I don't know and never met and I don't know what their like

Wasting money including being loads in debt just found out despite the good wage and living at home and only paying me a small amount of board, it seems mostly getting spent on booze. Borrowing off me and not paying back, I've sworn that'll stop before it is definitely stopping now.

Not sleeping enough if at all regular staying out all night not eating or eating crap. Always angry and up for a fight, slamming doors, banging about, throwing things, breaking things. Never cleaning up anything not even after herself, ruining our stuff by not cleaning or using them properly.

Room is a tip but not just her room mess everywhere. And I don't just mean clutter I mean filth. So relieved I am not the only one dealing with the grimness of used pads in the wrong places! Comng and going all hours and noisily/selfishly.

Barely speaks to me unless she wants something and if I do something nice for her even extra there's no thanks.

I'm really worried about her and think there's a drink problem too.

Everything wrong in her life is my fault. I admit I have made mistakes and have regrets but I need help now and I have absolutely no idea what to do.

I am totally heartbroken that we are in this position. She is changing between not speaking to me, angry, blaming me, sad, she's never coming home and speaking to me again, asking to come home, promising to change but not saying how and I've had those promises before and it never happens etc etc can't Have a calm talk with her she don't listen it just ends up in another argument. Can't walk away from arguments as she just follows me everywhere.

So much lies too, I used to be able to tell when she were lying but I haven't a clue now!

I'm knackered by it all and I'm not well any ways which she knows and this is making things so much worse.

I don't recognise my child any more in any way, it's like having a stranger in my home. And a badly behaved one.

I'm so down about it all and have no idea what to do.

I've been calling helplines but not got any useful advice. One said to remember the good days but they are so scarce it's getting hard to remember when the last one was.

If I let her come home I know nothing will change and I really can't cope with that any more but I'm bloody petrified of losing her too

Name changed cos I'm so ashamed

It's so true that they have to learn from their own mistakes Eenymeenyminyme and one of the hardest things as a parent is to stand back and let them make them.
Your dd is v lucky to have you hanging on the other end as it were!

Gettingropeburns please don't feel ashamed. Frankly it sounds as if you deserve a medal! Sorry you have had such a challenging three years. It also sounds like you have tried everything and it could just be that moving out and living independently might be the making of your dd. Perhaps you being there to cook and clean and pay for things and generally and literally pick up the pieces means that she doesn't have to focus on earning, getting up for work and looking after her own washing etc. You must be so worried but if you have tried talking and CAHMS and advice lines and she won't engage , there isn't a lot more you can realistically do. I hope your dd is able to turn things around with you taking more of a back seat role. .

And hopefully someone will be along soon to say that they have experienced something similar with their son or daughter, and it's all worked out ok!

Waves to Seasidepebbles

for everyone

@eenymeenyminyme I agree and am learning that too.

@GettingRopeBurns I think when you've tried everything else then sometimes stepping away is all you can do. Keep lines of communication open with a daily text. But take this time to rest and build yourself up. I hope she comes to her senses soon x

Sometimes I envy people who do not have children. The worry they don't have to carry on their shoulders and in their hearts. I feel things have improved for me and dd2 for the moment, I have managed to avoid giving her advice or trying to make things better and instead just let her be which certainly makes for a less tense relationship. I think she is making progress with her counsellor too but it's still early days. I have to trust they know what they are doing. I'm trying to keep my role light offering food, hugs and hot water bottles but no advice. I'm hoping she will also join me in a spot of yoga to bring her stress levels down. Fingers crossed.

Dontcallmedarling I haven't caught up with all of thread two yet but I remember some of your earlier posts and I'm really delighted to hear things are slightly better with your dd than they were. I really hope the counselling works well. We sound very similar with regard to stepping back and reconfiguring the relationships with our DDS in a lighter, more positive, less interventionist way..I know what you mean about the endless worry though! All toes and fingers crossed for you and your dd! X

I'm not coping today, no particular reason why.... just the feeling that I can't see an end to it all

The glimmers of light are very rare and shortlived.

Feeling down today 😢

sandwiches, hugs. Do something for yourself today, no matter how small.

Thanks @Pegsinarow, that's very lovely of you.

@sandwiches77 I hope your day improved. And tomorrow is a better day.

Sorry Sandwiches I've only just seen your post. Really sorry you are feeling so low .

I think it's the emotional roller coaster that wears you down after a while.

Still, teens can surprise us occasionally. I know I've had times with dd where I have really despaired and felt totally hopeless and then out-of- the blue she will do or say something amazing and everything turns around again in an instant. I totally understand that these glimmers aren't sometimes frequent enough to propel one forward though ...but hang in there ...

...and Seasidepebbles is spot on; put your energy in to yourself for a change and do something that makes you feel good! It's good for our teens to see us doing something for our own fulfilment occasionally , as they will hopefully model that same behaviour in the future. Take it steady.

Welcome back Pegs 👋🏼 and thanks for the timely reminder of 'The Letter.' I haven't posted much recently cos it's just been like Groundhog Day here - school refusals, tears, tantrums, boyfriend issues on a constant loop 😕 but I've still been following the thread.

A couple of nights ago, after yet another rant from DD that I don't care about her and do everything wrong, I was feeling really low and demoralised. Re-reading The Letter has helped get things back in perspective and put my big-girl pants on again! (No sexy undies for PoTs! 😜)

Last night I read it to DD and she actually cried! And she NEVER cries at sentimental stuff (not even John Lewis adverts or Toy Story 3 where Andy gives the toys to Bonnie 😭). She said it was exactly how she feels and she's scared we give up and let go the rope. I've reassured her I never will, and DH is going to say the same today too.

So keep holding on PoTs, look after yourselves, and "don't let the bastards grind you down!" 🌺☕️🍰💪🏼

Hi. Think I posted on the last thread.
Been sworn at and told to get out of her room before she throws things at me all for asking if she's done her homework which she hasn't hence the strip as she's landed herself in a long detention after school tomorrow
Now she's not come down for her tea.
Am acting as normal, but just cannot be arsed with this.
Her dad we're not together gets nine of this.
I don't go to work and pay the bills for this.
Her birthday is currently cancelled.

Thanks, everyone, feeling much better today. Its just been such a long road so far, so many obstacles and bumps in the road. On constant edge bracing myself for the next drama....

I really wish someone who's decided their kid has to move out was around to talk to me if anyone reading has done this but don't wanna post if you message me I'd be so greatful. Feel like I've failed but dunno what else to do.

Dd still not home, still only sending angry demanding texts. She told certain people a very bias side of things and I'm now getting judged by them. Even though they've not heard my side. She says she's moving somewhere else and wants to get her stuff but I still not sure I can trust her so someone else is gonna be here when she gets her stuff.

Thanks for the replies. I hope I'm doing right thing but I'm scared it's not. I'm kinda scared if she's ok on her own I'll lose her and she'll never admit she behaved worse at home, is that weird I'm thinking that? I want her to be ok to be safe of course I do but what I really want is her to come home and be safe here but acting a lot better than she is doing cos I really can't cope any more with broken sleep constant arguing stuff getting broken borrowing money and never paying it back worrying sick about her comings and goings and what she's up to the drinking its just too much.

Hi again everyone

Been a long time since I last posted (thread one). I've found my way back to you all, unfortunately.

Just a quick post for now while I catch up on Thread Two.

My DF passed away on May 7th so I've been quite distracted with everything that came with it. Then DD(15)s very adored great grandma passed away in August. Her great grandpa passed away in March. So she's had 3 huge losses in a short time (plus our beloved 10 year old rabbit).

Life has been very up and down with DD but to summarise...more alcohol (having to rescue her while extremely intoxicated and having her vomit and scream abuse in place of thanks). Underage sex. Threats of suicide to manipulate us all. Tantrums. Tears. Vile remarks when she hadn't got what she's wanted. And a very real mental breakdown from me

I'll have a read through Thread Two and see what's been going on and read from new posters since I was last here in May.

Awful that we have to be here in the first place, but what a great support!

I need you all again

DaintyToes so sorry your going through all thst. Sounds awful and sorry for the loss of your df too. I can't advise cos I'm not getting it right but I definitely sympathise you are definitely not the only one going through it on the teen drinking side. How do we stop them drinking? Can we stop them drinking? It is so hard I am not a drinker so I don't understand why dd is.I tried so hard to make sure she didn't give in to peer pressure but I failed. They all seen to drink loads more than we did and harder stuff too.

for @daintytoes. I am very sorry for your loss. It sounds like its a very difficult time for you. hugs

@gettingropeburns right now just concentrate on yourself, you sound exhausted and I don't think there is anything else you can do. Things can't stay the same so let things change and see what happens. Maybe this distance will help her gain some perspective and maturity. And ignore the judgement, you know the truth, you have been a good mum and have not failed, sometimes things just don't work out like we would want them to, it's not your fault.

@daintytoes so sorry for all your loss
I understand how you feel as my mum passed away in 2018
and its still very hard.
All we can do is keep advising and loving our teenagers as they always want to do the opposite to what we want them to do.
At least you know what she is doing and can try and help its when they go out and you don't know who they are with that is the problem I have I dont know any of her friends shes so secretive.
Hugs to everyone coming near the dreaded weekend that we used to look forward too now I dread them.

I wish I could believe it weren't my fault but who else is to blame? It's only been me and her all her life. Ok my family and friends and her friends around too and teachers and that. I thought I bought her up better. Until a few years ago she was a good kid, doing well at school, nice friends, hobbies, helped at home, didn't get in bother really bit cheeky sometimes but that's normal yea?

I am totally bloody knackered and I have no idea what to say to her and I normally talk talk talk! Worst week of my life crying all week. Cant sleep

I'm worried sick if she can't cope as I'm worried she won't come to me but I'm also worried in case she does come to me cos I don't know how to help her.

But I'm also scared if she's ok cos she knows better than to act there like she does here but she thinks that means she was right and still doesn't speak to me. I'm scared of losing her. I can't hear the thought. Is that stupid? Selfish?

Evening all.

Daintytoes I am very sorry for the loss of your df and for your other recent losses. It sounds really, really hard for you and for your dd. I think bereavement is particularly difficult to comprehend at her age. In some ways they have a self-protective selfishness, but in others they are terribly vulnerable. And you are the one left trying to hold it together for everyone else.

I know how you feel about your bunny too , strange though it sounds. I still miss my lovely rabbit who died three years ago, still have a framed photo of her by my bed!

So sorry also that things are still very tough going with your dd and with your mental health; it's really great to have you with us back on the thread but sorry for you that your PoTs club membership is still valid ifyswim. [Btw I still try and practice the child-parent interaction model you posted and it has really made a positive difference.] I hope you can gather in as much support as possible for you both in rl and from here.

Thank you for the warm welcome back Staywithmemyblood! Sorry you are on the teen torture treadmill. Very similar issues here! I hadn't actually thought of showing my dd 'The Letter' - that's a genius idea - I think I will hold it in reserve for a particularly noxious rant! PS Maybe we should rename ourselves the ample pant brigade... .

Mogloveseggs When do teens develop gratitude? I have no idea. I guess we can only hang on to the fact that the more they take our advice, and do as they are told, the less they see themselves as splitting off from us (developmentally speaking) . I'm not sure that knowing that always helps though when we are on the receiving end of insults etc .

So glad you are feeling a bit better Sandwiches. I know that "on tenterhooks" feeling so well.

Gettingropeburns you haven't failed. Anyone with half a brain will know that there are two sides to every story. I agree with everything Don'tcallmedarling said; please take some time out for yourself You need the break.

Daintytoes and Gettingropeburns don't know much about alcohol issues but I will have another go asking Mumsnet HQ if they have any professional experts lined up who are willing to talk to us.

McMen sorry you are dreading the weekend

Waves to all other PoTs! We'll get through this ... .

I'm not sure i will get through this actually feeling completely broken by it all

x post Gettingropeburns it's not you it's adolescence. It's her pre-frontal cortex going haywire. The proof lies in these three threads as we are all in the same boat to some degree. Your love for your dd shines out of your posts, and she will recognise it again given time. She feels it now even though her behaviour suggests the opposite. I understand why you are worried sick, but the status quo wasn't working, so perhaps better to give her the independence she craves, with you supporting from afar. They have to make their own mistakes sometimes. Can you go out yourself this weekend maybe? Take an evening off from the worry?