Thread three: holding on to the end of the rope, life in the bunker with the PoTs, where parenting a teen is adversely affecting your mental health

[Pegsinarow]

Thread one here.

Thread two here.

With thanks once more to Billybagpuss for inspiration for the title and to Ticklingcheese and many other parents of teens who are emerging from the worst, or currently going through it, this is a support thread for parents who are being driven to despair by their teens. It is a continuation of two previous threads where many of us clubbed together to exchange experiences, possible strategies and understanding of what can be a very draining, isolating and distressing time for all!

Special thanks also to McMen05 who has kept this thread running smoothly and welcomed and responded to many newcomers and returnees this summer

And thanks again to Godmother for our "club" name: the PoTs!

Several helpful things emerged from the previous threads. First, so many of us are experiencing the same challenges or extraordinarily similar behaviour from our teens, in all sorts of different households and circumstances, that it can't all be down to poor parenting, despite what a tiny fraction of posters tried to tell us! So, whilst acknowledging our own mistakes and less than perfect parenting, and trying to find solutions and expert guidance, we also need to try and ditch the guilt and feelings of failure.

Also , it is evident there isn't as much state help available for teens as required, CAMHS for example is very over-stretched and under-resourced.

It was suggested by some posters that distancing ourselves from the very personal remarks and being slightly less "available" can be helpful and Tarragonsauce said that picking our battles, addressing our own symptoms, keeping in mind (with reference to school non-attendance, exam failure, bf issues) that there is more than one way to skin a cat, and remembering that "this too shall pass" can be helpful strategies.

Daintytoes explained an extremely helpful model of parent-child interaction in thread one at 07/04/2019 23:O6 .

Finally, remember that people don't tend to talk about their tortuous times with their teens because of shame, weariness, bewilderment and fear of being misunderstood or judged, but trust me, you are NOT alone! So last but definitely not least, thank you to each and every contributor to the first and second thread. PoTs tend to arrive on the thread feeling quite raw and demoralised but depite their own distress, they help other parents and it's great to be able to share the angst.

Tin hats on everybody for round three!

_

And finally, here is the original letter posted by BillyBagpuss on the first thread:

Dear Parent:

This is the letter that I wish I could write.

This fight we are in right now. I need it. I need this fight. I can’t tell you this because I don’t have the language for it and it wouldn’t make senslee anyway. But I need this fight. Badly. I need to hate you right now and I need you to survive it. I need you to survive my hating you and you hating me. I need this fight even though I hate it too. It doesn’t matter what this fight is even about: curfew, homework, laundry, my messy room, going out, staying in, leaving, not leaving, boyfriend, girlfriend, no friends, bad friends. It doesn’t matter. I need to fight you on it and I need you to fight me back.

I desperately need you to hold the other end of the rope. To hang on tightly while I thrash on the other end—while I find the handholds and footholds in this new world I feel like I am in. I used to know who I was, who you were, who we were. But right now I don’t. Right now I am looking for my edges and I can sometimes only find them when I am pulling on you. When I push everything I used to know to its edge. Then I feel like I exist and for a minute I can breathe. I know you long for the sweeter kid that I was. I know this because I long for that kid too, and some of that longing is what is so painful for me right now.

I need this fight and I need to see that no matter how bad or big my feelings are—they won’t destroy you or me. I need you to love me even at my worst, even when it looks like I don’t love you. I need you to love yourself and me for the both of us right now. I know it sucks to be disliked and labeled the bad guy. I feel the same way on the inside, but I need you to tolerate it and get other grownups to help you. Because I can’t right now. If you want to get all of your grown up friends together and have a ‘surviving-your-teenager-support-group-rage-fest’ that’s fine with me. Or talk about me behind my back--I don’t care. Just don’t give up on me. Don’t give up on this fight. I need it.

This is the fight that will teach me that my shadow is not bigger than my light. This is the fight that will teach me that bad feelings don’t mean the end of a relationship. This is the fight that will teach me how to listen to myself, even when it might disappoint others.

And this particular fight will end. Like any storm, it will blow over. And I will forget and you will forget. And then it will come back. And I will need you to hang on to the rope again. I will need this over and over for years.

I know there is nothing inherently satisfying in this job for you. I know I will likely never thank you for it or even acknowledge your side of it. In fact I will probably criticize you for all this hard work. It will seem like nothing you do will be enough. And yet, I am relying entirely on your ability to stay in this fight. No matter how much I argue. No matter how much I sulk. No matter how silent I get.

Please hang on to the other end of the rope. And know that you are doing the most important job that anyone could possibly be doing for me right now.

Love, Your Teenager

_

Going out not possible been hit by a flu thing too.

She is saying I don't love her I don't care not just to me to others too. i think she hates me. Some saying I've let her down.

She doesn't hate you and ignore everyone else.

I know they act like they hate us. But they really really don't.

Some bits of this

And if you Google "my teen daughter hates me" about a thousand links pop up from parenting websites or pyschology institutes explaining why it might appear they might, but they really really don't deep down.

This time last year I thought my dd hated me too, it still feels like it sometimes, so I totally 'get' where you are coming from.

Sorry you are suffering with the flu too; no wonder you feel rotten. Don't think about anything else for a few days except getting better . Hope you recover soon.

I don't know if that video makes me feel better or worse. What's the guy's name?

I never really fussed about clothes and hair and stuff I experimented a lot with that kind of thing myself she has tattoos and piercings and that don't bother me.

What really worried me is she used to care a lot more about looking after herself and treated our home with more respect.

She won't listen to anybody not just me. She dont think ahead ever. It's all in impulse she wants food it's whatever's quick and easy she won't even wait 20 mins for some pasta she'd go takeaway, friends ask her to go out she goes even if she got work early next day.

I worry she thinks I hate her too.I don't but her behaviour just makes me so hurt and yes angry.

Mcmen why do you think she is so secretuve? Have there been problems with her friends before? Would you not approve or is it cos their dodgy do you think? Is that what your worried about?

Been through the mill these past few days, I apologise for not engaging, but I hear you all and I’m in the same boat. I need a bit of time to calm down and process stuff, then I’ll come back.
Hugs to you all.

@gettingRopeburns she says its because we live in country and nothing to do she likes to go into town to meet friends
I have met a couple when I drop her off but when she meets big gangs and I don't know them I hate that I see photos and videos and it gives be bad anxiety thinking about it as she has been hit twice once at a disco and the other at school so she probably not all innocent. She probably afraid I'd judge but I have let her have boyfriends from different nationality if shes happy I'll accept it. But she never let's me meet the boys maybe I'm just nosy and overprotective.

Does anyone else feel their teens are trying to break up their parents? Ours is constantly foul to one of us, usually dp. I end up taking sides and we row. Often he will ignore anything dp says or create scenes- I feel like I can’t leave them alone.

DS (13) is currently off the PlayStation for horrendous behaviour. He has threatened me, been verbally abusive. We had several weekends totally taken over by his shouting and demanding more time. He lost his temper with the Q Time device and threw it at a wall. He then unplugged the playstation and left it on the kitchen table, so I removed it upstairs. We've had so much stress with this all through the summer holidays. Shouting /screaming when playing online, demanding money for in game purchases, not wanting to go out anywhere. We are now in the "void" of him not allowed on it and facing another battle when he starts asking for it back again

Aramox, yes our teens behaviour has caused massive tension between myself and DH

I’ve just been told I hate you 100 times. It’s so depressing. Why? Because I take his phone at 9 pm. (He’s 13). All he does is rage at us. I wish I could take it away properly but his capacity to be even more unpleasant is daunting. There’s nothing nice I can do for him at all.

Mcmen sorry I left you hanging. That's fair enough you want her to be safe. Totally get that. That's not overprotective that's normal. I'm afraid I have no advice though as I've same with my dd. I drew the line at strange boys or even men in my house though. No anyone that stays here I have to know them not just met them.

Aramox I'm single so don't have that exact problem but I'm thinking more playing one off against the other to get their way? Using knowing dad will say yes but mum will say no so I'll only ask dad yea?

I never had the games console issue I think thats more a boy thing? Friends have though and torn their hair out over it! One friend her husband had enough beginning of summer and sold their sons! He was raging for about first 2 months but then he seemed to turn a corner and wasn't quite as bad this last few months don't know if it will last though.

Phones though? Nightmare! If I took dds phone she'd howl like she lost an arm! Big problems at 12/13 though with girls being nasty to each other bloody awful.eventually got it sorted but the mean girls shit? Awful so heartbreaking. And you can't control their friendships past a certain age but boy it's hard not to scream 'she ain't your friend friends don't treat you like that'

Yes aramox the fear that the rages could be even worse is very daunting good word.

Aramox use the digital balance in the settings. You lock it with a password. Turns all the apps off on the phone from 8/9pm to 6/7 am whatever you choose

I think that one reason raging DS plays me off against my partner is because it makes him feel powerful. And to see us, his parents, out of sorts takes the spotlight away from him. But for us, it can be so difficult. Often he kicks off in the evening so by 10.30pm ish and he's gone to bed we are exhausted and sad and there is no time for us to come together before bedtime. (There are glimmers of niceness though and we hang onto these like jewels in the darkness.) A psychologist we went to said that one parent usually gets it in the neck worse that the other one. In our three-strong family, it's me. I am old, senile, irrelevant, says he. (And I am older than my darling partner and so it does hurt and I have to remind myself that I have friends/am valid in some way.) Although, so far, I am not senile etc etc not yet today. And as I have not yet been called a bitch today, I regard it as a win.

DD sleeps all.day, I mean know teens are known for their sleep, but she sleeps solid for up to 14 hours. Some nights she is awake, I've heard her when I've got up to the loo in the early hours of the morning

She is austic and won't agree to go to the Dr's

@theendofsummer I do use the settings. That’s why he hates me.

God kids can be horrible yet we carry on loving and worrying about them. 'she ain't your friend friends don't treat you like that' - the amount of times I've thought that, sigh, it's causes so much unhappiness and anxiety.
No advice just sympathy and solidarity x

Can I join in?

I've sort of hung back from posting, but have read bits of the three threads, as much for hope as advice!

I'm sorry, as I'm typing on stupid phone now, it's tricky to remember and name check PPs. But lots of similar experiences, so my sympathies, and thanks for sharing.

The rope poem is helpful.

DS1 is 13.5. We've had behaviour problems at home since about aged 9. Perfect in school, but ability to maintain friendships is becoming an issue. Usual triggers for arguments: screen time, failure to do most basic of jobs (brush teeth!), lies. Standard teenage fare I'd guess, but it is his extreme reactions that are the difference: Abusive language, aggressive, physically violent to property, me, siblings.

Yes he plays DH and I off. I'm usually the target for most of the rage. I worry our marriage will not survive.

He's rejected most help we've had - safespace talking, MAT worker, school counselling: No one else must know he's not perfect. Rare times he gets so upset that he opens up, it's about not knowing his own feelings, jealousy and resentment, wrecking good behaviour deliberately.

Dd11 is currently Little Miss Perfect, which causes no end of problems! They were v close as kids, before she was ill with cancer. She is fine now, if with a maturity way beyond her tears. We think some of his issues relate to that time.

DS2 8 just got ADHD diagnosis earlier this year. DS1 was engaged with camhs for anxiety and anger, but can't get him to accept what they recommend. (wanting to assess DS1 for ADHD too).

However, DS2 also got autism diagnosis this week. Paed consultant pushed to get bloods done, for genetic info. Not told kids about new diagnosis, and certainly not blood tests. DS1 threw massive strop when DS2 ADHD dx came through: 'life unfair, woe is me, how can I have ill sister getting all attention, and now ill little brother who will get attention' 😩

I think this more or less confirms what we have suspected: DS1 has pathological avoidance demand, a subset of autism. So considering asking camhs to go down that route. I suspect DS1 will have bigger strop when told of DS2 autism. He will link autism with him, and go full on denial, woe is me.

Yeah, like pp, I'm a bit afraid of his meltdowns getting worse.

Just so annoying/upsetting talking to other parents, who don't believe he can be as bad as they think we make out. OK, check out holes in my walls, or talk to us or his siblings after he's threatened us, or stolen from us.

Yes, I'd like to remember lovely little boy and seeing some flashes of niceness.

Sorry that was all a bit if a rant!

Feeling really down about him, DS2 etc. With Dd1 cancer, we had a treatment plan, knew what was coming, what we could do. With this behaviour, and now diagnosis, it just seems endless.

Will have to have a look at that poem again...

Gosh I might have needed that poem a couple of weeks ago. It feels a little late now.
I was advised to come here because I was feeling extremely low tonight.
I have a few issues in my life atm, my 13yr old son is the one which causes the most pain.
2 weeks ago I was in tenerife with my husband celebrating our 2 year wedding anniversary. My son and I had a little row the evening before I went (over tidying his bedroom no less) and he went to his dad's still mad at me.
During the week away he decided he was going to live at his dad's permanently.
His dad contacted the school before he even told me!
For many years since we split, the children have been with me Sun - Thurs and their dad's Thurs - Sun. Their dad moved out of the area 2 years ago when he moved in with his girlfriend.
So in order for my son to live there, he has to move school... So this is huge, not your average 'call his bluff'.
I've had absolutely no say in anything now since this has all happened.
My son now comes to me on Saturday (while I'm working) and goes back on Sunday.
My daughter kept the old routine.
So my son will start his new school which I've never been to, tomorrow.
My ex has also decided that my daughter won't be going there on Saturdays anymore as he wants a kid free night!
I obviously don't mind my kids being home with me, I'm just getting hugely frustrated with the lack of support from him like I had when my daughter was going through all the same motions (exes gf wasn't on the scene then)
Back then, he would encourage my daughter to build a relationship with me and defend my parenting and stand by my discipline.
Now he does nothing.
My son comes to me on a Saturday and will watch a film with me, then goes to his room. Then he'll stay there all Sunday too if I don't ask him to come see me.
I'm feeling rejected by my son. I don't know what to do now that he's gone and I'm only seeing him 1 night a week. It's breaking my heart every time he leaves. Any advise will be appreciated.

@oldstripeyNEWname1 your description of the arguments and violence/aggression is very familiar, scarily so. Ds loses it regularly when asked to do things he doesn’t want to. It’s more controlled recently but I worry he may have some undiagnosed issue ( vs being a massive testosterone-fuelled pain)

@Hunnibee84 welcome to the thread we are all in same boat here with our teens ignoring us. So its not just you, they are growing up and their friends are more interesting than us.
Even if he lived with you all the time he would still want time in his room to do his own thing.
The more you keep hounding him about it the less likely he will want to be with you.
This is what I done with my 16yo dd. She decided herself on Saturday night not to go out said she wanted a family night and if I had begged her to stay in she would have wanted to go out.
If you continue to do nice things with your dd he will feel he is missing out and want to join in.
He will also miss his friends at old school unless something happened at school that he has not told you about.

Morning. Just discovered this place and the letter made me cry. Single parent to 3 boys aged 9, 12 and 15. It’s DS1 causing the problems.

I just don’t know what to do anymore. He’s verbally and physically aggressive, towards me and his brothers at times....currently I’ve had his phone for 3 weeks and have told him he’s never having it back. He does go to school but always late. He’s experimenting with drink, maybe soft drugs, not sure. He’s come out as gay, not sure how much this is contributing to his behaviour/mental well-being.

I’m at the end of my tether. I’ve tried all routes but he’s a smart boy and just says he’s fine, doesn’t need any help.

I’m worried how his behaviour is influencing his brothers.

It’s probably fairly standard stuff, messy room, won’t eat meals I prepare always wants something else, always on his phone, won’t do homework, I put parent controls on the phone but he found a way to break them so he can still use it.

All he wants is his phone back and I refuse.

He’s nicer without it.

Last weekend he went out at 1pm and stayed out all night, came home 4pm Sunday. I said he could go, but worry about who he’s hanging out with and what he’s doing. He’s been using his brothers phone to message people so I’ve seen some of what he’s saying, like how I’m a psycho bitch, bragging about drinking and smoking dope and I just don’t know what to do.

Do I let him go, do what he wants, give up parenting him? If I try and restrict anything it ends in a fight. Last time he told school and now we’re waiting for Social Services to come visit again. Said he’d make it go away if I just give him his phone back 😡🙄

I’m a single parent now, for last 2.5 years, he spends every other weekend with his dad but there’s not any real support there. I guess my moans don’t sound so bad compared to some, but god it’s so hard surviving this. He was the sweetest, kindest little boy, we were always so close. Sometimes I see glimmers, he can still be affectionate and loving but it can also be vaguely threatening - he’ll hug me but in a dominating way, hard to explain.....he just a bit bigger than me now, he’s always been very small, and likes to pick me up and basically demonstrate how he’s stronger.

I’m not a perfect parent, but right now I couldn’t feel more hopeless. I don’t know what I’m trying to say really, just feel so alone.

@mrsh1807 you are not alone. Read through the other two previous threads which @Pegsinarow has linked at the top of this one.
There is lots of support on the thread.
We all have different teen problems but they are all affecting our Mental health making us feel that we are in the wrong trying our best to parent them and they just want freedom.
I sometimes think back what was I like as a teen well we didn't have phones but I always remember I was a door slammer and we didn't want our parents in our social life and really we where a bit luckier without the social media as we where not found out as easy if we where up to no good.
So for a minute put yourself in his shoes, he thinks its cool to show off that he is drinking and smoking. Did you do anything like this at his age what advice would you give yourself as a teenager.
He is using his brothers phone so not much point in taking his phone and having a constant battle.
My solution with my 16yo dd was we continued on our family letting her having a bit of freedom when she seen she was missing out on what we where doing she decided not to go out on Saturday night and came out for a family dinner on Sunday and played a game on phone with her sister age 14.
But If I had kept putting my foot down she wants to go out to get away from the argument.
Get him to tidy his room and he can have phone back.
Unless they are bullying or buying or selling drugs on phone I wouldn't keep it too long.
Im just a mum learning as I go and it works for me if they have a messy room leave on worktop in kitchen to room is tidy.
No homework deal with teacher giving out.

Mine is no longer a teen.
In the last 5 months she has however

• spilt hot drink on legs necessitating A&E trip (needed dressing for 2-3 weeks)
• resigned from job without new job to go to
• accidentally gave herself concussion (another A&E trip, not recovered yet after 2.5 weeks)

and that is on top of a whole load of other stuff

Hope everyone is having a peaceful time with their teens and this is why the thread has gone quite.
I was still having a ranting teen at 4am this morning she was at a disco and went in the area I told her not to go in so I kinda lost the plot with her why didn't I just go to sleep and not argue well my reason was because I love her.
She said all we do is give out and not let her be a teenager.
I let her stay out to 1.30 bought her makeup new outfit got her phone credit then she said she seen her bf kiss another girl at the disco. I really dont know if this is true because she is always telling lies.
But I gave her a hug and said you can't accuse him unless you are 100% sure. as this will ruin your relationship.
Although I haven't met him my 2 dd know him and dd2 says he wouldn't do this.
I really find dd1 her hard to believe .
He walked her to her lift and messaged away all night as usual and before she went to work so I don't think he did then she said it was dark and other boys had same tops. I honestly believe she is lying to get me to stop ranting at her for been in dangerous area.
I don't want her to be taken advantage of either if he did kiss another girl. I would not let him treat her like this.

Half term. Aaaahh.