Thread three: holding on to the end of the rope, life in the bunker with the PoTs, where parenting a teen is adversely affecting your mental health

[Pegsinarow]

Thread one here.

Thread two here.

With thanks once more to Billybagpuss for inspiration for the title and to Ticklingcheese and many other parents of teens who are emerging from the worst, or currently going through it, this is a support thread for parents who are being driven to despair by their teens. It is a continuation of two previous threads where many of us clubbed together to exchange experiences, possible strategies and understanding of what can be a very draining, isolating and distressing time for all!

Special thanks also to McMen05 who has kept this thread running smoothly and welcomed and responded to many newcomers and returnees this summer

And thanks again to Godmother for our "club" name: the PoTs!

Several helpful things emerged from the previous threads. First, so many of us are experiencing the same challenges or extraordinarily similar behaviour from our teens, in all sorts of different households and circumstances, that it can't all be down to poor parenting, despite what a tiny fraction of posters tried to tell us! So, whilst acknowledging our own mistakes and less than perfect parenting, and trying to find solutions and expert guidance, we also need to try and ditch the guilt and feelings of failure.

Also , it is evident there isn't as much state help available for teens as required, CAMHS for example is very over-stretched and under-resourced.

It was suggested by some posters that distancing ourselves from the very personal remarks and being slightly less "available" can be helpful and Tarragonsauce said that picking our battles, addressing our own symptoms, keeping in mind (with reference to school non-attendance, exam failure, bf issues) that there is more than one way to skin a cat, and remembering that "this too shall pass" can be helpful strategies.

Daintytoes explained an extremely helpful model of parent-child interaction in thread one at 07/04/2019 23:O6 .

Finally, remember that people don't tend to talk about their tortuous times with their teens because of shame, weariness, bewilderment and fear of being misunderstood or judged, but trust me, you are NOT alone! So last but definitely not least, thank you to each and every contributor to the first and second thread. PoTs tend to arrive on the thread feeling quite raw and demoralised but depite their own distress, they help other parents and it's great to be able to share the angst.

Tin hats on everybody for round three!

_

And finally, here is the original letter posted by BillyBagpuss on the first thread:

Dear Parent:

This is the letter that I wish I could write.

This fight we are in right now. I need it. I need this fight. I can’t tell you this because I don’t have the language for it and it wouldn’t make senslee anyway. But I need this fight. Badly. I need to hate you right now and I need you to survive it. I need you to survive my hating you and you hating me. I need this fight even though I hate it too. It doesn’t matter what this fight is even about: curfew, homework, laundry, my messy room, going out, staying in, leaving, not leaving, boyfriend, girlfriend, no friends, bad friends. It doesn’t matter. I need to fight you on it and I need you to fight me back.

I desperately need you to hold the other end of the rope. To hang on tightly while I thrash on the other end—while I find the handholds and footholds in this new world I feel like I am in. I used to know who I was, who you were, who we were. But right now I don’t. Right now I am looking for my edges and I can sometimes only find them when I am pulling on you. When I push everything I used to know to its edge. Then I feel like I exist and for a minute I can breathe. I know you long for the sweeter kid that I was. I know this because I long for that kid too, and some of that longing is what is so painful for me right now.

I need this fight and I need to see that no matter how bad or big my feelings are—they won’t destroy you or me. I need you to love me even at my worst, even when it looks like I don’t love you. I need you to love yourself and me for the both of us right now. I know it sucks to be disliked and labeled the bad guy. I feel the same way on the inside, but I need you to tolerate it and get other grownups to help you. Because I can’t right now. If you want to get all of your grown up friends together and have a ‘surviving-your-teenager-support-group-rage-fest’ that’s fine with me. Or talk about me behind my back--I don’t care. Just don’t give up on me. Don’t give up on this fight. I need it.

This is the fight that will teach me that my shadow is not bigger than my light. This is the fight that will teach me that bad feelings don’t mean the end of a relationship. This is the fight that will teach me how to listen to myself, even when it might disappoint others.

And this particular fight will end. Like any storm, it will blow over. And I will forget and you will forget. And then it will come back. And I will need you to hang on to the rope again. I will need this over and over for years.

I know there is nothing inherently satisfying in this job for you. I know I will likely never thank you for it or even acknowledge your side of it. In fact I will probably criticize you for all this hard work. It will seem like nothing you do will be enough. And yet, I am relying entirely on your ability to stay in this fight. No matter how much I argue. No matter how much I sulk. No matter how silent I get.

Please hang on to the other end of the rope. And know that you are doing the most important job that anyone could possibly be doing for me right now.

Love, Your Teenager

_

👋🏼@Billybagpuss - great to see you back on the thread. Just wanted to say thank you for sharing your experience of parenting teens It honestly has meant a lot to hear from someone who has 'been there' and can reassure us that they do come through it, and that we will heal too.
I'm glad your DD has finally found counselling that is working for her 😊 My DD is having CBT therapy atm, focussing on handling her emotions and dealing with anxiety. She is recognising some of her thinking is unhelpful and destructive, but it's going to be a long process. I'm coming to terms with that, and my work have just agreed I can reduce my work pattern further - I already work part-time - to term-time only (they have been really supportive and understanding- I'm v lucky).
Anyway, hang in there PoTs - hope everyone is feeling able to hold that rope today ☕️🍰🌺

Yes thanks @billybagpuss, good to hear from further up the road! We’re sinking into too many rows here, it’s such hard work. Always over turning off tv at the moment, but it seems like ds just has to fight about something.

My dd bf finished with her the night before formal. Both went separately what bad timing. Thankfully she had a great night.

Hello there. Can I join please?
I've been reading this thread with admiration. How you all manage in the face of this teen maelstrom with intelligence, tenacity and kindness.
Today I orderd a lockable box for our kitchen knives.
Our 12 year old DD's physical (as well as verbal) aggression towards her twin sister and us feels very scary. Yesterday she attacked her sister again and went for a knife. Something she has done countless times before. Whilst I don't think she would actually stab one of us deliberately (for the moment at least) an accident is likely to happen sooner or later. She also stole her sister's phone (preventing her from meeting up with a friend as arranged), swore, hit, punched and threatened us.
Ordering that box yesterday evening took me hours. I sobbed uncontrollably for the family life we will never have. I am in mourning and it hurts so much.
I don't know how to help DD with her rages and protect my other daughter.
Hope all you wonderful, caring PoTs are surviving.

Hey, @milktwosugars, and welcome. Yep I also find reading through this thread helps - I often feel like an utter failure as a mum, and this thread is one of the places I turn to. If I lose hope (and I do) it helps enormously to read posts from parents who have been through this, come out of it at the other end and taken the time to reassure those of us still stuck in the thick of it that things will be ok.
I have two daughters, 2ish years apart. They can be lovely (and I cling to those moments!) but generally they don’t get on - screaming and swearing, threats of physical violence, theft of each others’ things etc all happening regularly, with much misery all round. Like you I try to protect the youngest without alienating her older sister, and try to help them see they’re both loved and valued equally, but I am struggling with it and get accused of favouritism (and freely admit that, sometimes, it all gets too much and I just yell at them, even though I want desperately not to). So it’s not exactly the same, but I totally feel for you. We are getting through it day by day, with some good moments and some horrendous ones - sending you a virtual hug and wishing you good moments this week.

Welcome to all new comers

I too am feeling so broken I can’t find away to keep going. I’m so scared for my daughter I don’t know where to start to help her anymore. I have two other children that suffer from her ignoring them. She tells us what we want to hear but does what ever she wants anyway.
We have no other family near by. My husband is awesome.
I’m so scared for my daughter at 17 I thought all of this would settle, but all year it’s been one thing after another and I’m broken. I do not know where to go next.
Her psychologist tells me she is doing well. But days like today make me realise I’ve stuffed up along the way and I really feel hated by my daughter, she tells me she would rather be with her friend than here, she hates her brother and sister and wants more freedom.
Anyway wanted to reach out 😢

preston, hugs, my dear. At 17, you can only help that much. Look after yourself.
milk, how scary! Why does she hate her sister?

@SeaSidePebbles I don’t know. Massive age gap I assume, she is the same with her little brother. Age gap is 5 years and 10 years so she says they annoy her.

Hi all new comers I get the threat from my dd age 16 at least once a month that she is going to run away from home. She rang me yesterday after school and I said the cases are in my bedroom for you to pack she didn't like this so she said I didn't love her. I said I love you unconditionally but can't have you keeping on threating to run away when you not getting your own way.
She constantly lies so I don't know when she is telling the truth.
She had us all crying yesterday with her threats.
Hand hold to you all can't give any advice today as my own family need help.
I told her to change all her social media passwords that I don't want to see anymore crap.
Have a good day and keep reading the thread.

I sympathise on the threats to run away. When DS was 17 he used to flounce out after escalating minor arguments and say he would sleep rough (in reality stayed with friends but we didn't know that and were worried). He did it 4 or 5 times, seems to have outgrown it now at 19 thank goodness. I guess it was a way to break away from us and punish us for being his parents (the worst ones ever, obviously ).

Hang in there everyone, they won't be teens forever.

Mine ran away twice, to her Dad. I didn’t go back for her the second time. First time for telling her to clean her room. I don’t remember why the second time. I’m traumatised by the whole raising teenagers shit.
She came back, btw, her dad has no heating, the fairy who sorted all the practicalities in his life divorced him. He’s had no heating for 3 years.
It’s gonna bug me now. Did she really run away twice, or was it just once and then threats. My brain is fried.

Hi, just found you. Haven’t had a chance to read through it all but the few bits I have read made me feel so much better. Been through hell and back with my 16yr old DD and it’s getting worse. I’ll update the full story after some sleep but so amazing to realise I’m not the only one that feels like a complete and utter failure. When your daughter doesn’t ‘need you as a mother anymore’ it cuts a little deep! I will catch up and join in if that’s ok! x

Welcome @slimerecipehell we are all here for same reason.
Our teens are growing up and maybe we still need them more than we need them.

Hi, just read the letter from the teenager about holding onto the other end of the rope and it just about brought me to my knees.

I have two teenage girls. The eldest I had a blip with at the beginning of 2018. We had always been very close and had a lovely relationship but she began to act out, become distant and accusatory, verbally abusive. It broke my heart and I didn’t know how to handle it. Thankfully it didn’t last too long but it took our relationship a while to get back to where it is now and even then it’s not the same.

Daughter no 2 has been going through a hard times at school since last year. I’ve been there for her every step of the way, listening when she wants to talk or giving advice if she wants it. I’ve always been a present Mum and family life has always come first.

This year however everything is being directed towards me. Her mood has completely altered. Some days she is my daughter, other days I don’t know who she is. I am to blame for absolutely everything. Her depression is my fault. I’m insulted, criticised, sworn at, made fun of, belittled, accused of all sorts you name it. I’ve been digging my heels in so that she knows that I love her and I’m here for her but its been months now and it’s beginning to affect my own health.
When I’m not at work I isolate myself to my room for a good portion of the time when the rest of my family is at home to avoid conflict.
My emotions are so close to the surface that I cry at the drop of a hat. I feel completely at a loss. I’ve been to her school for meetings and sorted out a plan for going forward with the teachers and staff. Taken her to the doctors and sat in the waiting room. She threatens me with childline and says she has told the school and doctor that I’m the reason for her depression. The other day she said “ oh boohooo to poor mother, always the victim, poor you, just leave as you’re of no value here”
I’m constantly going into work in tears as it’s either just after another round of accusations, put downs or hate filled comments.
My friends say that she is using me as a scapegoat.
Please, any and all help or advice would be much appreciated 🙏🏻😞

Welcome to the thread @Autumn23
We are all here for the same reason our teens affecting our own mental health.
I have two dd one is 16 the quite one that gives all the bother with lying and sneaky.
Dd14 no trouble yet.
DD1 has my heart broke, been to the guards over a boy assaulting her at xmas.
Fighting in school, Never know exactly who she is with or where she is. It's always someone else fault.
I was looking for something in her room a week ago which I don't normally go into found a bottle of vodka and a condom of course she had excuses for it all there was also 3 bottles of summer fruit wine which I had bought her for parties and this is all I allow her drink but of course she has to not drink it and go for something she not allow.
found a vape. Everything always belongs to someone else.
I can't believe a word she says so I go off to bed at 9 or 8.30 to avoid the conflict.
Get emails from school about no homework. It's just a constant battle about everything.
Just keep reading back on thread one and two some good advice
I had to go on anxiety and blood pressure tablets in April as couldn't cope without something and they have helped as well as staying out of her drama.

Hello all again. My teen’s developing a bit more common sense and empathy which is great. But he has become very anxious and withrawn socially. Actually I’m wondering now if his tantrums and defiance have been driven by anxiety. Does that ring bells for anyone else?

@Amorax - yes, my DD's anger and defiance are driven by anxiety. She wants 'control' of everything and everyone, and because she obviously can't have this, she has meltdowns and panic attacks and refuses to cooperate with anything (school refusals - attendance 54% last term, won't attend appointments- Dr's, dentists, hairdressers etc, refuses to be in the house alone, even cancels plans with friends last minute - she is naturally very sociable).

She has been on the CAMHS waiting list since February, but has recently been getting online CBT therapy from Healios - initially 6 sessions, but she has now been accepted for a further 10. She can now see that her defensive defiance is very negative behaviour and not particularly helpful to her, and that it would actually give her more 'control' and be more empowering if she were to make positive choices. Putting this into practice however is going to take time, but it's a start 😊

Sorry to hear your DS is moving into this phase - it is very difficult, and I am now on Sertraline to help keep my own anxiety under control. It's great that he's developing more common sense and empathy though. Keep holding the rope!

@Autumn23 - I am the verbal and emotional punchbag for my DD too. It feels bloody awful doesn't it, and has a huge toll on our own mental health. It's small consolation that it's because we're their 'safe place' where they can vent all their teenage angst and know we'll still love them unconditionally. You're doing a great job, stay strong - there's loads of us in the same boat, and we're here for a handhold any time 🍰☕️

@mcmen05 @Staywithmemyblood thank you for your responses. I can’t tell you how much it’s helped knowing that I’m not alone in this. I’ve yet to read all of thread one and two but when I’m not dodging verbal bullets I will settle down to read. I’m just so scared that if she’s telling school and the doctor that I’m to blame for how she is feeling that she will be taken away from us 😞

Hello all

It's seems so many of us have the same kind of crap to deal with from our teens. I feel so sorry for you all, as I can totally sympathise and completely understand.
I hate, hate, hate this awful phase and dream about the day my 16 year old son leaves home, awful I know but its how I feel.

He's so rude, seems to hate the entire family, is miserable too. He mentioned to me the other day that he thinks there's some wrong with him and he thinks he's got mental health problems.
When I asked him what, he said he didn't want to talk to me about it, or anyone else either. I have managed to get him to see the gp next week but he says he's never going to talk to me about it. It's so hurtful, I want him to open up to me so I can help.

We used to be so close and I miss my little boy. He's so awful now and shouts and screams whenever I call him out on his behaviour.
I've given up on consequences now, they seemed to make things worse, with him threatening all sorts of things if I took his phone away or something.

I'm just so tired of it and also like the previous poster, on the verge of tears most days.

Please can someone talk me down. Last night DS 14 had a friend over to stay. Seemed to having a great time, pizza, music and bonfire in back garden.
DH and I left them to it and went to bed about 11.

This morning DS came out of his room looking like a zombie. First instinct was that they'd stayed up all night but looking at the colour of him my suspicions were soon aroused.
I went to the drinks cabinet to find that between the pair of them they'd demolished half a bottle of pimms, plus an undisclosed amount of gin and rum (can't remember exactly how much was in the bottles).

I am absolutely livid; I had to ring the other boy's mum and tell her, which although she took ivery well, was mortifying. We're not even talking a few bottles of beer, this was hard liquor!

Not the first time DS has taken booze either, although not for a long time (although could well be wrong ) Thought we'd dealt with it strongly enough last time but clearly not.

We gave them both a stern talking to, although DS was probably saved a total roasting as his friend was here. We then made them wash our cars in the freezing weather as penance but I am still so upset.

How on earth do I handle the drinking, stealing and lying? I just can't trust him at all

Hopeful bump!

Stop the sleepovers until he can prove he is responsible enough. He’s not allowed to go on a sleepover or have one at his for a term.
Look, some of it is shit we did as teenagers ourselves. It was just funny. Doesn’t mean we developed an alcohol problem.
In my exP’s case, it did develop in full blown alcoholism, which obliterated 10 years of his life.
There is a fine line...

I personally don’t keep any alcohol in the house.

Thanks Pebbles... he doesn't do/have many sleepovers but that is def knocked one the head for the foreseeable.

I think you're right in the that we need to not have alcohol in the house, especially as this isn't the first time. But what with Xmas approaching I don't know how realistic that is. Maybe a locked cupboard somewhere.

DH aren't heavy drinkers but both of us like a glass of wine. Am still a bit shocked that it's spirits DS has been downing.