Thread three: holding on to the end of the rope, life in the bunker with the PoTs, where parenting a teen is adversely affecting your mental health

[Pegsinarow]

Thread one here.

Thread two here.

With thanks once more to Billybagpuss for inspiration for the title and to Ticklingcheese and many other parents of teens who are emerging from the worst, or currently going through it, this is a support thread for parents who are being driven to despair by their teens. It is a continuation of two previous threads where many of us clubbed together to exchange experiences, possible strategies and understanding of what can be a very draining, isolating and distressing time for all!

Special thanks also to McMen05 who has kept this thread running smoothly and welcomed and responded to many newcomers and returnees this summer

And thanks again to Godmother for our "club" name: the PoTs!

Several helpful things emerged from the previous threads. First, so many of us are experiencing the same challenges or extraordinarily similar behaviour from our teens, in all sorts of different households and circumstances, that it can't all be down to poor parenting, despite what a tiny fraction of posters tried to tell us! So, whilst acknowledging our own mistakes and less than perfect parenting, and trying to find solutions and expert guidance, we also need to try and ditch the guilt and feelings of failure.

Also , it is evident there isn't as much state help available for teens as required, CAMHS for example is very over-stretched and under-resourced.

It was suggested by some posters that distancing ourselves from the very personal remarks and being slightly less "available" can be helpful and Tarragonsauce said that picking our battles, addressing our own symptoms, keeping in mind (with reference to school non-attendance, exam failure, bf issues) that there is more than one way to skin a cat, and remembering that "this too shall pass" can be helpful strategies.

Daintytoes explained an extremely helpful model of parent-child interaction in thread one at 07/04/2019 23:O6 .

Finally, remember that people don't tend to talk about their tortuous times with their teens because of shame, weariness, bewilderment and fear of being misunderstood or judged, but trust me, you are NOT alone! So last but definitely not least, thank you to each and every contributor to the first and second thread. PoTs tend to arrive on the thread feeling quite raw and demoralised but depite their own distress, they help other parents and it's great to be able to share the angst.

Tin hats on everybody for round three!

_

And finally, here is the original letter posted by BillyBagpuss on the first thread:

Dear Parent:

This is the letter that I wish I could write.

This fight we are in right now. I need it. I need this fight. I can’t tell you this because I don’t have the language for it and it wouldn’t make senslee anyway. But I need this fight. Badly. I need to hate you right now and I need you to survive it. I need you to survive my hating you and you hating me. I need this fight even though I hate it too. It doesn’t matter what this fight is even about: curfew, homework, laundry, my messy room, going out, staying in, leaving, not leaving, boyfriend, girlfriend, no friends, bad friends. It doesn’t matter. I need to fight you on it and I need you to fight me back.

I desperately need you to hold the other end of the rope. To hang on tightly while I thrash on the other end—while I find the handholds and footholds in this new world I feel like I am in. I used to know who I was, who you were, who we were. But right now I don’t. Right now I am looking for my edges and I can sometimes only find them when I am pulling on you. When I push everything I used to know to its edge. Then I feel like I exist and for a minute I can breathe. I know you long for the sweeter kid that I was. I know this because I long for that kid too, and some of that longing is what is so painful for me right now.

I need this fight and I need to see that no matter how bad or big my feelings are—they won’t destroy you or me. I need you to love me even at my worst, even when it looks like I don’t love you. I need you to love yourself and me for the both of us right now. I know it sucks to be disliked and labeled the bad guy. I feel the same way on the inside, but I need you to tolerate it and get other grownups to help you. Because I can’t right now. If you want to get all of your grown up friends together and have a ‘surviving-your-teenager-support-group-rage-fest’ that’s fine with me. Or talk about me behind my back--I don’t care. Just don’t give up on me. Don’t give up on this fight. I need it.

This is the fight that will teach me that my shadow is not bigger than my light. This is the fight that will teach me that bad feelings don’t mean the end of a relationship. This is the fight that will teach me how to listen to myself, even when it might disappoint others.

And this particular fight will end. Like any storm, it will blow over. And I will forget and you will forget. And then it will come back. And I will need you to hang on to the rope again. I will need this over and over for years.

I know there is nothing inherently satisfying in this job for you. I know I will likely never thank you for it or even acknowledge your side of it. In fact I will probably criticize you for all this hard work. It will seem like nothing you do will be enough. And yet, I am relying entirely on your ability to stay in this fight. No matter how much I argue. No matter how much I sulk. No matter how silent I get.

Please hang on to the other end of the rope. And know that you are doing the most important job that anyone could possibly be doing for me right now.

Love, Your Teenager

_

@fudgecakes hold on tight.
I have got much better. Don't know if it is getting used to hrt or I have taken a step back since she became 16. And she has a nicer bf but haven't met him yet.
Her formal is on the 14th and don't know how I will handle my temper if he doesn't show up to collect her.

sigh.... DD has done no college work for 2 weeks, still struggling with lack of friends. She has decided she needs to find herself again and has been putting up a false persona. She reckons going to Uni will make everything better as she will be away from DH and I (obviously we are the cause of all of her problems), but is doing f all about putting the work in to get to Uni. She hasn't done any work because she hasn't felt like it if she does make it to Uni, how does she think that work ethic is going to work??

Yes @mcmen05 I must grab it again and hang on with all my might...

we saw GP today as DH and I, although being fully aware we are on choppy teen seas, were wondering if the anger, vitriol, rudeness which at times is frankly staggering, were within the realms of normal. In his opinion, yes! Thankfully no self harm, suicidal thoughts, bullying issues or law breaking behaviours to deal with so they're not triggers for any if this. So suck it up mum and dad basically. Get a hold of the rope and find a way to ride the thrashes!

They took bloods also to rule out anaemia or some other deficiencies as she has no get up and go and had a mega can't be arsed attitude. So we'll see what, if anything, that throws up.

I'm worried now that a doctor endorsed "yep, you're a normal stroppy teen" is gonna give her an excuse for her behaviour..I still feel it needs addressing somehow....or do I just accept she cant help it and suck it up whilst holding onto the rope fir dear life? God, it's hard

Dropped the rope a bit here and turned off the ps4 after an evening of being abused remorselessly. So much hate.

Lying in bed with my 12 year old after another blazing row with ds1. Horrid argument last night after he came home after a day out telling me again how crap I am, how his friends and their parents think I’m psycho because they’ve watch the videos hes taken where hes provoked me into being a screaming banshee. How amazing his friends parents are. Going on and on at me until I snap, tell him to F off and put his tea in the bin. Of course this is further evidence that I’m a psycho. Especially because I then can’t stop crying, as he mocks me for doing so.

Today, out all day, home at 7.30, I want his phone at 10pm - the agreed time. He phones his friend and acts like I’m attacking him, while ds2 films the whole thing to prove I’m not! How has life become like this?

I can identify with wanting to run away. I feel so hopeless. How has life become like this? Ds2 upset, me upset, crying together, feeling scared after he rages at me telling me to F off repeatedly, telling me he’s never coming back if he doesn’t have his phone tomorrow.

I just feel the phone is the root cause of so much! And I pay for it like a stupid masochist.

I’m praying my other 2 don’t end up like this. Just don’t know what to do with him. Waiting for family services to come and work with us, I hope they actually do and they can make improvements.

Feel so alone. People don’t understand unless they have a child like this.

Helpless and hopeless 😢

Right, PoTs with girls, I have found an amazing book. Reviving Ophelia. I am reading it at the moment. OMG, I am buying a copy for all my friends with teenage daughters. I didn’t get to the solution part, really, but just reading page after page of validation makes me feel sane again.

In other news, watch this space, DD asked the other day why aren’t we living in my DP’s house, I have 2 bedrooms, he has 5. Never occurred to me. We all live together at mine’s, have done so for 3 years now. We sort of fell into this arrangement.
So DP sits me down and asks if I’d like to move into his house. More (much more) space, hardly any bills.
I suspect fowl play from both of them, they must have planned this.
I said yes. But I am keeping my house. They both agreed. I still have a mortgage on mine, I overpay, so should finish it in about 9 years. Financially, I’ll be infinitely better off.
So it looks like I’m moving house just before Christmas.

@mrsh1807 that all rings bells with me! (My daughter’s insult of choice is that I’m ‘mental’). You sound like a very thoughtful and loving mum - I’m rubbish at knowing helpful things to say, but you’re not alone. And I share your feelings about phones!

Yup, another ‘psycho’ mum here 🙋‍♀️ (according to my DD anyway 🙄😂) Glad I’m in good company - and hope we are all managing to see the ridiculousness of our teens accusations today 🌺

That’s great news re your new living arrangements @SeaSidePebbles - good luck with the move 😊 Off to google Reviving Ophelia now - thanks for the recommendation 👍🏻

I fell off the previous thread.

I spent the afternoon with DS in a police station yesterday. He sat smirking, and I sobbed pretty much through the whole thing. This last year has been like a living hell and it seems there is no end to it. I have come to understand that I have unwittingly enabled his behaviour by trying to avoid the rows that intervening bring. But the consequences have been massive, on me, my MH and the whole family. We are all unhappy.

I went to bed yesterday before DH got home from work, as I didn't want to talk to anyone, but I think today we need to agree a new strategy between he and I, and then as a family.

Oh, poor you notaflyingmonkey, that’s so so hard on you!
Please please please take some time out today, read something trashy, or go for a swim/run, grab a coffee on your own at the supermarkets, have a bath, anything to switch your mind off this nightmare for a bit. Hugs to you.

Its tough monkey. V distressing. Had something similar myself a couple of years ago, police, though it was a one-off. Try not to take it too personally. If you've been a good mum, and he's playing a fool, then its not all on you, it really isn't it. He is also learning by experience, and by hook or crook he is growing into the person he will be, and there will be mistakes along the way, as with all of us.

Having my own (albeit more trivial) problems today. In my case the more I try to do to help even the most basic things I have to do as a parent, the worse it is. Just backing off seems to be the answer, and anyway I just can't be bloody bothered anymore, so tired of it.

Monkey that is awful, I am sorry. I can so identify with the fear of rows- sometimes in the last year it has felt like I am just not parenting. Instead ds gets his ideas from social media- we have arguments where he advances the most awful views about rape, women, - Partly just to try it on, but it is rare he gets to have our influence. Recently he complained all he ever gets from us is negativity and I just don’t know how to help with that. I try to be positive but I can’t have any fun with him or express pride because he won’t do anything, either with me or without! His school work is mediocre at best, he is mean to us and anxious so disengages from the world.
Don’t despair though. I am sure the kids we love are there underneath. We must take care of ourselves and build a wall against their horribleness.

Stumbled across this thread and place marking to have a good read of later.

I want to run away just thrown
Things around her room
Because I asked her to pause holly oaks to tidy room presently
Screaming and throwing things ..

Oh @sparkly40, hope it calms down soon. We had a melt down last night, lots of crying and accusations. It's like all their anger and upset just comes out in one concentrated burst. Not just anger at me, but also anger at herself. I'm starting to realise that part of the problem is that my DD is not comfortable in her own skin, she needs to accept herself but how we get to that point is another whole issue. I felt very tired today.

Wishing reserves of resilience to all of you holding on.

Another meltdown night here too, rage and accusations. I know it is partly gaming-induced, but if I take gaming away he has nothing to enjoy, as he insists. Won’t do anything else but phone and sulk! Only child so family life pretty much depends on him co-operating. I have feebly confiscated his phone for an hour as a penalty for his insults to me. @notaflyingmonkey how are things with you?

I'm hanging on to the rope by a thread ATM.

Thanks for your kind words and sympathy. I have had a couple of good talks with DS about his behaviour, but he has told me that he may well continue doing the things he does because of how it makes him feel. We have talked about the consequences of that, I made it clear my support is time limited - ie he won't get my support if arrested again. (I don't know if I can follow through with that, but it's part of my way to stop enabling him).

This time last year he attempted suicide, so I am also aware that I need to avoid him feeling that he has no hope, no chance for the future.

What a horrible day ! Took 13 year old to the city centre get some new trainers (another growth spurt) All went well and we had hot chocolate at Starbucks afterwards. On the way to the bus, he went in a secondhand game shop and asked for a playstation game. I had already said nothing today, as I'd already paid for new trainers. It was also a game that is too old for him and has unsuitable content. He stood there in the shop, challenging my decision, whilst also telling me repeatedly to "shut up. He then stormed off and kept telling me to go away and one use of"f off". He had no money or bus pass and it was getting dark. He kept walking for about 2 miles. I rang my brother and asked him to call him. I then sent a text message and he finally agreed to get in a taxi. When we got home, he banged the metal garden gate and bent the metal latch part. He stormed into the house and undid his coat zip with such force that he broke it.
He did text me and say sorry after a short period of sulking in his bedroom. He came downstairs but has become increasingly annoying. He's been asked to put his pyjamas on and go to bed, as he looks exhausted. He has ignored that request.
He had a good night's sleep as always last night. His phone switches off at 8:45 every evening. He did a 5k run this morning, so I'm puzzled why he reacted so over the top?
I was so exasperated this afternoon that I went outside to cry in the garden in private

Miserable. Sounds like he just needed to test a boundary and he certainly did. I recognise that ‘annoying’ late night rampaging too. Mine slept in his clothes the other night. I hope he comes out of it today.

@notaflyingmonkey, so sorry you are going through this with your DS. I haven’t yet been in your shoes but it is something that I think may be coming. I too avoid arguing and so I know DS is up to stuff that I know is wrong. He is so secretive though. I am scared to take his phone in case he is given one by someone else. It’s a major challenge. We just do what we can. And keep on holding onto the rope..

@Fleetheart - thank you. I have done things that I am not proud of - carried out regular searches of his room, even searched him, set up fake Insta and SnapChat accounts to see what he was up to etc as he was lying to me through his teeth. I have become a person that I barely recognise. I hope that one day I will look back on this and laugh, but in reality I know that things are likely to get even worse.

@notaflyingmonkey, I understand completely. I have also turned into someone I don’t want to be. It’s incredibly difficult to watch someone making all the wrong choices. I’m very tense. Have tried CBT which has actually helped a lot, but also am very weary of my DS who is unbelievably rude to me. It’s not what I was hoping for out of family life. He does absolutely no work so cannot see him passing even one GCSE, so he will be here for some time to come. Frankly If he was a partner I would chuck him out/ leave him. But you can’t do that with your 15 year old.

Sadly I think I have found my people
I'm struggling with ds14 behaviour. He's just vile and I don't like him very much.

He was the one I was closest too, he used to cuddle me all the time and was my mini me.

He had a strop Saturday morning. I have no idea what about so I left him home whilst I went shopping with ds12. He didn't get any new clothes because he wasn't with us.

This morning he has a strop because there is no food in the house. Pointing out that there is an unopened box of cereal, bread, ham, eggs and bacon apparently is not the right response. Que more stropping. Still in pyjamas on his bed when needs to be leaving house. Tell him to get move on and get dressed. Apparently I'm a dick and a cunt.

Then get call from school he has been found with tobacco and lighters which he said someone else gave to him to look after. So now he is grounded.

All of this because he wants to live with his dad which I don't actually have an issue with (right now I'd be glad to see the back of him) but dad point blank refuses
To discuss anything. His response is send him to live with me you are a shit mother and make him unhappy. He will see you when he has a free window.
I have no relationship with oldest ds18 who lives with his dad. I don't want history to repeat itself.

Right now I wish I could hide for the next 5 years.

My dd1 has her formal on Thursday night and her bf told her yesterday he not going.
She cried all night but doesn't want to break up with him.
He said he just doesn't feel like going.
I have persuaded her to go as she has a lovely dress and can have fun with her friends.
I just want to throttle him and she loves him but I don't know why.

Hello PoTs, wow thread 3!!

I've been away a while and still am so grateful to you all for helping me put the last 5 years into perspective, so many times I typed out a post and often didn't post it, but it helped.

@Fudgecakes, the rope is still there, you can pick it up when you're ready. The screaming banshee moment was probably very necessary and will stay with her. How old is your DD? are you still relied on for lifts etc.

@mcmen05 is this the same BF from thread 1? I hope you can persuade her to go to the formal.

To everyone else I want to send you all hugs, I hope that I can offer you hope that it does get better. DD2 (now 20) had her first session today with a private counsellor, the mental health support from school/uni/GP) has been awful and non existent but this was a revelation. We had a long chat afterwards and all those things that you guys are saying, the hate the rage that I was taking on daily (that rope poem is so unbelievably accurate, thank you for reposting @Pegsinarow) she was aware of, she said she had talked about me and called me her rock (yes I cried) she also said they talked about being able to handle her emotions, which despite being so much better than 2 or 3 years ago is something she still struggles with. This is also something that she said we are both bad at.

Please all take hope, it does get easier. to all.