Thread three: holding on to the end of the rope, life in the bunker with the PoTs, where parenting a teen is adversely affecting your mental health

[Pegsinarow]

Thread one here.

Thread two here.

With thanks once more to Billybagpuss for inspiration for the title and to Ticklingcheese and many other parents of teens who are emerging from the worst, or currently going through it, this is a support thread for parents who are being driven to despair by their teens. It is a continuation of two previous threads where many of us clubbed together to exchange experiences, possible strategies and understanding of what can be a very draining, isolating and distressing time for all!

Special thanks also to McMen05 who has kept this thread running smoothly and welcomed and responded to many newcomers and returnees this summer

And thanks again to Godmother for our "club" name: the PoTs!

Several helpful things emerged from the previous threads. First, so many of us are experiencing the same challenges or extraordinarily similar behaviour from our teens, in all sorts of different households and circumstances, that it can't all be down to poor parenting, despite what a tiny fraction of posters tried to tell us! So, whilst acknowledging our own mistakes and less than perfect parenting, and trying to find solutions and expert guidance, we also need to try and ditch the guilt and feelings of failure.

Also , it is evident there isn't as much state help available for teens as required, CAMHS for example is very over-stretched and under-resourced.

It was suggested by some posters that distancing ourselves from the very personal remarks and being slightly less "available" can be helpful and Tarragonsauce said that picking our battles, addressing our own symptoms, keeping in mind (with reference to school non-attendance, exam failure, bf issues) that there is more than one way to skin a cat, and remembering that "this too shall pass" can be helpful strategies.

Daintytoes explained an extremely helpful model of parent-child interaction in thread one at 07/04/2019 23:O6 .

Finally, remember that people don't tend to talk about their tortuous times with their teens because of shame, weariness, bewilderment and fear of being misunderstood or judged, but trust me, you are NOT alone! So last but definitely not least, thank you to each and every contributor to the first and second thread. PoTs tend to arrive on the thread feeling quite raw and demoralised but depite their own distress, they help other parents and it's great to be able to share the angst.

Tin hats on everybody for round three!

_

And finally, here is the original letter posted by BillyBagpuss on the first thread:

Dear Parent:

This is the letter that I wish I could write.

This fight we are in right now. I need it. I need this fight. I can’t tell you this because I don’t have the language for it and it wouldn’t make senslee anyway. But I need this fight. Badly. I need to hate you right now and I need you to survive it. I need you to survive my hating you and you hating me. I need this fight even though I hate it too. It doesn’t matter what this fight is even about: curfew, homework, laundry, my messy room, going out, staying in, leaving, not leaving, boyfriend, girlfriend, no friends, bad friends. It doesn’t matter. I need to fight you on it and I need you to fight me back.

I desperately need you to hold the other end of the rope. To hang on tightly while I thrash on the other end—while I find the handholds and footholds in this new world I feel like I am in. I used to know who I was, who you were, who we were. But right now I don’t. Right now I am looking for my edges and I can sometimes only find them when I am pulling on you. When I push everything I used to know to its edge. Then I feel like I exist and for a minute I can breathe. I know you long for the sweeter kid that I was. I know this because I long for that kid too, and some of that longing is what is so painful for me right now.

I need this fight and I need to see that no matter how bad or big my feelings are—they won’t destroy you or me. I need you to love me even at my worst, even when it looks like I don’t love you. I need you to love yourself and me for the both of us right now. I know it sucks to be disliked and labeled the bad guy. I feel the same way on the inside, but I need you to tolerate it and get other grownups to help you. Because I can’t right now. If you want to get all of your grown up friends together and have a ‘surviving-your-teenager-support-group-rage-fest’ that’s fine with me. Or talk about me behind my back--I don’t care. Just don’t give up on me. Don’t give up on this fight. I need it.

This is the fight that will teach me that my shadow is not bigger than my light. This is the fight that will teach me that bad feelings don’t mean the end of a relationship. This is the fight that will teach me how to listen to myself, even when it might disappoint others.

And this particular fight will end. Like any storm, it will blow over. And I will forget and you will forget. And then it will come back. And I will need you to hang on to the rope again. I will need this over and over for years.

I know there is nothing inherently satisfying in this job for you. I know I will likely never thank you for it or even acknowledge your side of it. In fact I will probably criticize you for all this hard work. It will seem like nothing you do will be enough. And yet, I am relying entirely on your ability to stay in this fight. No matter how much I argue. No matter how much I sulk. No matter how silent I get.

Please hang on to the other end of the rope. And know that you are doing the most important job that anyone could possibly be doing for me right now.

Love, Your Teenager

_

@Retrieversarefluffy how is she now? I find with my DD it usually takes a few days before she'll start to process what to do in her head and there is no point starting a conversation about it until that time.

However you will need to make it clear that ok, she may have dropped out of college that does not mean 24/7 pizza parties and Netflix at your expense and give her a timeline to come up with some suggestions.

Happy New Year all ! It's been a while since I last posted. Things have been better in our household but far from perfect, I try my best (although fail sometimes) to not offer advice to my dd but instead just nod and offer sympathy. This has helped to keep the peace between us. Her stress levels are still not great. Seeing a counsellor has been helpful but it is a long term process and her self esteem/confidence is still not wonderful. My own stress levels have improved after I decided to take a proper step back and trust that will be able to navigate this teen life herself. I just take each day as it comes. I am sad that I wish her teen years away more often than not.
I hope you guys have a lovely and drama-free weekend.

@billybagpuss I'm having to hold myself back as I want to organise her and she does not wish to be organised So I'm stressing out but trying not to show it. We have had the 'don't think you're just going to doss about talk' and to be fair she is looking at apprenticeships. We've stopped her allowance for now until she finds a course/apprenticeship/job/voluntary work and are taking the router to bed so she can't be on the internet all night. I'm finding raising a teenager is a good lesson in learning how to love unconditionally - good for the soul but not for your nerves

Can I join the thread. NC for this, as could be outing.

We are almost at the end of teenage years as DD will be 20 in a few months but I think she has got worse from 16 onwards. She has always been young for her age, had health problems at birth and through primary.

She’s not particularly academic but did alright at GCSEs, albeit having to retake English Lang alongside her BTEC, found latter hard so doesn’t want to do further study at moment. No trouble in school years, was missing tutorials in college first year due to re-doing English coursework, but we nipped that in bud very quickly and she passed her English in Yr 12!

So to now, she’s been working in retail since leaving college 18mths ago, whilst saving to go abroad volunteering and travelling. She spent 10 wks away volunteering in autumn, came back more grown up in some ways but still young for her age. Currently planning more travelling this year, and maybe working abroad, which I know will help her mature more.

She spent a few days with PIL last week, she had a lovely time, they loved having her, we had a peaceful week. Came back Friday and in the midst of unpacking announced to me she had a date on Sat - with a woman she had contacted via internet. We were a bit stunned about the woman part, had no idea she was that way inclined, but more so that she was going off to meet a stranger from internet.

We spoke about the latter, and how careful she needs to be, even at this age, and an hour later she texted from her room to say she had cancelled the ‘date’, didn’t really want to go anyway. She went out with a local friend instead (who we saw pick her up). We have since had another chat about meeting strangers, however, she is all “Yeah, Yeah, I know all that, I’m not a baby etc” which counts for nothing given that she had arranged to meet this person. I tried to point that out but It fell on deaf ears.

She has a car, so is mobile which makes things worse, she can go where she wants, and even arrange to pick them up from a station if they don’t drive, which is even more dangerous.

She’s too old for phone tracking, would never agree to it.

I have asked her just to keep us informed when she is going out, where/who etc, and she has said she will, but we did find out she was lying to us last year about some weekly volunteering work (found out as she borrowed my phone to use when hers was being mended, mine has location tracking on!).

I am hoping that she has matured sufficiently from her autumn trip to be truthful with us, but am so scared now that she will end up meeting someone unsavoury. Unfortunately we lost a young family member recently, natural causes, but it has increased my anxiety about both her and her brother (away at uni). I know I can’t wrap them in cotton wool, but this latest incident has increased my worrying. She is supposedly meeting a friend from her autumn trip tomorrow, she has reiterated who she’s meeting, but I am still worried she is lying!

She is just so hard to talk to, tells me she knows everything and doesn’t need to hear it. DH tends to agree with her for a peaceful life. I am finding life so hard, we should be enjoying life, in our 50s, financially comfortable, kids old enough for us to have freedom and plan early retirement, but I just want to throw the towel in and walk out. Or worse still....

Any advice welcome. I know we just need to hang in there for a few more years, but no consolation at the moment.

I have found my tribe! I’ve got rope burns from hanging on so tightly and my daughter isn’t even a teenager yet! She’s just 12 but is adopted and is also registered blind, having lost her sight very suddenly and unexpectedly. I know there’s a lot going on for and I understand the toxic, volcanic anger and violent eruptions. But I am burned out after more than a decade of therapeutic parenting (any other adopters, special guardians or foster carers here?).

I’m currently awaiting her return from a weekend Guide camp and I’m ashamed to say that I’m not really looking forward to seeing her. It’s been so peaceful and her adoptive toddler sister and I have whiled away the hours in harmony, playing snakes and ladders and doing puzzles.

I hope you don’t mind me joining your thread, even though we don’t have the official ‘teenager’ badge yet? I have crippling insomnia at the moment so I read all three threads overnight and it was so comforting to know that others are in the same boat and that cr@p happens to nice people!

Oh @Whyislifesohard2727 I totally get where you're coming from and the cancelling thing sounds very like my DD and I'm not convinced that she doesn't have some form of social interaction issues, not Aspergers but along those lines, she also takes things very literally.

Unfortunately as she's nearly 20 you absolutely have to take a step back but most importantly keep the lines of communication open. With DD I've found the most effective way is to talk to her enthusiastically about what she's up to, 'that sounds fun', 'what was she like', that sort of thing, then for anything that sounds a bit 'off' do a concerned 'ooh are you sure thats a good plan? kind of thing and end it with a I'm sure you'll be fine but please be safe and sensible cos I love you.

So step back from the 'teenage/parent talks' and pretend you're chatting to a friend. So rather than going down the 'don't meet up with strangers route' go down the 'she sounds cool where did you meet her' route, you can also with the meeting off the internet thing do the 'Ooh you know I'm an old fuss monster but have you got your safety things in place' So get her to 'check in' and make sure you know that it's not just because you're her mum you'd do it for anyone.

I've been doing this a while, DD actually met her BF online when she was away at uni on the other side of the country, we still managed to do the 'ok its safe' texts but it took a while to get her head around it being a normal thing to do rather than us being over protective parents. I often get my younger DD who's much more worldly wise to broach these subjects too as she's more likely to react well to her.

So keep the lines of communication open and don't give her reason to want to lie to you. DD was also a great one for the bending the truth.

for your loss it must be so hard.

@Moominmammaatsea You're not a bad parent for enjoying the time your DD is away, mine and her BF who live with us announced they wanted to come on holiday with us, I was partly gutted as I love it when they are away and my kitchen looks the same at night as it did when I left it in the morning.

I think what you've done for your DD is amazing and it must be so hard to juggle dealing with that v keeping the calm for the rest of your family, I don't have any helpful advice but this thread can be a fantastic outlet to get any frustrations out.

@billybagpuss, thanks for the welcome, I will definitely keep reading and posting here; I sense it’s a lifeline for many. My life is quite lonely as there are not very many real life people I can confide in about just how bad things are here (verbal and physical abuse, extreme aggression, and escalating episodes of stealing). On the plus side, my daughter is excelling at her selective Grammar school so I pray that she can make it through her secondary education without her usual self-sabotaging.

Funnily enough, just as I’d posted about enjoying the weekend without her, the parent with whom I car-shared the two-hour journey to camp texted me to say they are delayed on their return home, due to eating cake in a cafe en-route. The gods are truly smiling on me today! 😀

@Whyislifesohard2727 welcome to thread.
My teenagers are bit younger than yours and I like to know who they are with but hope when they are 18 I can let them go a bit.
We all meet people we have never met when we are out. Most of our husbands or partners would have been strangers when we met them. We didn't always tell our parents where we were going.
You need to relax and think on your own Mental Health the only way she will learn to grow into an adult is if you relax.
When she was away doing charity work you didn't know who she was with 24/7.
As parents we will always worry.

@Moom what exactly does your dd do so you can get better advice as problems vary so much. I feel by just typing mine done on this page it takes it out off my head for a while. Maybe get her to join in the board game with you. Do something she likes.
My 15 year old and 11 year old are going to take out a bag off flour to make me a cake for my birthday yes there will be a mess but they will have fun and the cake will be awful but I will suck it up for their happiness and eat It and finish cleaning the mess after because that's what us parents do clear up the simple mess of example flour or the bigger mess if they go out get drunk do drugs get sick we are there for them. Hand hold to everyone

Thanks for the responses.

Yes, I do need to relax, but I find that hard when she is still living at home. Ironically I was the most relaxed when she was abroad volunteering, she was on a UK-organised trip and although I didn’t specifically know who she was with, I had the comfort of knowing the UK directors would be in touch if there was a problem. Plus she was on a tiny island, she FaceTimed a lot, so we were actually communicating more than when she was at home.

He brother is at uni, and I am more relaxed with him, although he is more communicative anyway!

@Whyislifesohard2727 yes that makes perfect sense too, dd2 and bf seem to have been home permanently since mid December, they’re driving me mad and it’s no coincidence I’ve drifted back into the thread after quite some time.

Bookmarking, so I can come back to read later.

Hi all - newbie here.

My 17 year old ds was a school refuser and now is refusing to attend college.

He says he isn't depressed or anxious and there doesn't seem to be anything physically wrong.

I am tearing my hair out.

@fishflame I can sympathise.My DD16 has dropped out of college (she did attend school OK though). She's looking for an appenticeship, maybe that route would suit your DS as well? We have stopped her allowance until she finds something to do and are switching the WiFi off at 10pm to stop her staying up and lying in late. We're giving her a list of things to do each day mostly around job hunting. Have you got a local inspira? They run courses with work placements attached. DD is refusing to engage with them at mo but we will revisit it if we need to in a few weeks. I have been stressed out but I'm trying to remember things could be worse (as DD would say , ' I could be on drugs'

Thanks Retrievers - that's very helpful and the thought "at least he's not on drugs" regularly occurs to me!

Ds not on drugs either but very very rude and annoying! It’s so hard to be tolerant. He’s determined to do nothing but phone/netflix, and nothing seems to bring him any pleasure- family life is just grim (he’s an only). Any other parents of only kids figured out how to keep up some family quality of life?

I’m so glad I found this thread as it’s made me realise maybe we’re not such rubbish parents after all. For the past 2 months I feel like I am going mad trying to parent DD 14.

I had typed out a huge long post about the situation but actually doing that has been quite cathartic in itself and I don't really want to put the whole story out there as it's very outing (I've NCd to post).

But we've had pretty much everything - social media nightmares including her account being accessed by 'friends', bullying, getting in with the wrong crowd - so now just have a really miserable girl who is reacting by getting angry, distancing herself, lying and blaming us. The school are involved due to welfare concerns having been reported and the bullying but I feel like they are fed up with us/her. We go between shouting, tears and then apologies - but then doing the same things again. I'm exhausted, not sleeping or eating properly.

Knowing that there are others out there going through this is a comfort. I’ve been trying to read the first 2 threads and can see so many people going through the same thing and some great advice. I empathise with everyone else going through this – as a PP said bring back the toddler years, all is forgiven.

The letter absolutely describes what I think DD is going through right now so we are trying so hard to keep hold of the rope, but god is she making it difficult. For those who have showed their teens it, what was their reaction?

@TeenTraumaTrials I also typed so many posts and then deleted them it really does help, the other thing I find is walking the dog and playing out scenarios in my head where I tell them straight how awful they are being (and of course they agree and mend their ways) but even shouting in my head helped.

The things I found helped the most (other than my dog, we got her when dd was 19 should have done it years earlier) get out the house, make sure you have a hobby for you and practice the ‘please don’t speak to me like that’ phrase, very calmly and walk away, don’t engage and be less available.

Thanks Billybagpuss - I know I am guilty of getting drawn into arguments when I should just walk away so am going to try that more. And being less available - although that is difficult when there is stuff going on at school/with friends. We're trying to encourage her to look forward rather than back, but it's hard.

We do have a dog who is actually great for DD - we call her our therapy dog. My release is running and i do exactly the same as you - go through all of the things I can't say and do - it's a lifeline.

Anyway, in typical teen fashion she was all sweetness last night - in a falsely hyper way talking about birthday presents and holidays - she apologised for 'being moody' - just has no concept of the impact of her behaviour.

@teentraumatrials I hear you! 14 year old girls and friendship issues. I'm hoping once GCSEs start, they will all be too busy to be bitchy! But of course the stress of GCSES will bring about a whole other set of problems. Sigh. Just had her screaming the house down and being mean to her sibling. When she's upset/angry. It's like a tornado ripping through the house. Breathe breathe breathe.

@Moominmammaatsea. Also a first time poster here. I am a special guardian to a 16 year old.ours is an absolute angel in many ways and doing really well given the life she had until 2 years ago.
But the hard things are so hard. Food issues. Hypersensitivity. We have been very responsive and receptive with these issues, and after 2 years I am beginning to think this is all actually about control. She can’t stand how my Dh eats. Honestly, he’s not bad, I have a low tolerance for bad food manners too and he is ok. We have music on, we sit them at opposite ends of the table, but still she delays coming to table and leaves abruptly with much of her food uneaten shooting daggers at him.
I don’t know what to do. We’ve always enjoyed chatty sociable meals around the table. Now the atmosphere is really tense, we aren’t relaxed at all. And we are limited to about 3 meals that she enjoys. And I think this is all about her replicating some dysfunctional relationships in her family of origin. I don’t know whether I should be asking her what more we can do, which gives her more control, or trying to get her to see that her behaviour is upsetting us. RL friends say we should tell her to get her own meals,, but that was part of the dynamic before, and very bad for her as she lived on value ready meals and instant noodles, and would again. She desperately needs to learn how to operate in a family, so I don’t want to call quits on eating together, but I can’t stand this.

Dear oh dear, that is so long. Sorry regulars for stealing your thread.

Hi @ zebracat, lovely to meet you! I’m no expert by any means but the thing that sprung out from me from your post is ‘triangulation/splitting’ which is where our troubled young people use their incredible control techniques to splinter the united parental relationship, often in an attempt to recreate the chaos and dysfunction they have experienced in their birth family situation. I’m guessing DV?

@Zebracat, sorry I didn’t @ you properly! See my above reply.

@moominmammatsea. You are right, it is triangulation, not a food issue at all, and I thought I was being so great about the food. I might pm you, don’t want to say too much on a public forum. But what to do?