🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Is Everyone Having Botox Without Me? 💉

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For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

NEW SERIES:

So You Want To Buy A Retinoid - A Guide

December 2019: Time for The Snailies way more reliable and better than the MN recommends annual roundup (yes I'm still bitter about them quoting me in isolation and making me sound like a wanker please don't revoke my special image allowance privileges, MNHQ )

Also: Thread 20 in time for 2020!!! Ahem, where are my presents?

Yay! Well done Client. Don't forget a glass of water by the bed.

Drinking a bottle of water now. 10 jäger bombs and that was just the shots

Such a good explanation of why you can't trust everything many of these influencers say bo
I'm currently rocking mosquito bites on my face because I was to lazy to put my net down after alot of wine on Friday hoping they clear soon as for the first time in months my skin skin isn't full of under skin spots.
Thinking of adding in a first cleanse in the new year now it seems set I don't react badly with the BHA. I've tried and failed many times with oil cleansers but January is when the sun really gets strong and with having to apply spf every couple of hours while outdoors I'm thinking a first cleanse would be good.

I have lurked on here for a long time and am mildly obsessed with skincare and Bobbi Brown makeup. I'm also friends with Client in real life so share a lot of skincare/makeup stuff off the boards. I'm guilty of influencing the Hippy Shake purchase!

Great explanation there from Bo as to why you can’t really trust paid beauty experts or influencers getting freebies. I’m noticing so many ads lately and I’ve barely been on Instagram this past month because it’s so boring. I’ve unfollowed a lot of the big names in beauty. They all seem to use and love SO MANY products. How is that possible? We only have so much skin on our face and most people’s would go bonkers if they shoved that much crap on. Are they testing it out on their arse??

Are there any good beauty books that can be trusted and explain the actual science? If not, gap in the market there Bo!

Enid I'm . Please just tell me it's shit because my lipsticks are still in New Jersey

Are you able to get an oil cleanser locally out?

Welcome Suze!

Blue, I think the increase in ads is really down to the newer legislation, it's all stuff that went undisclosed previously and it really exposes how strong their ties are with the industry vs their following. It's really quite difficult to paint yourself as a consumer advocate with those type of close ties when they're that numerous and you can't remember the last time you paid for anything.

There are a few books but they boil down to the same thing, mostly, sunscreen, good varied diet that's low in processed foods and sugar, moderate exercise, tretinoin, etc.

I have no business writing any books, I'm an internet random not an expert, and I don't particularly credit anyone who sells skincare an expert either.

I'd have to look up the books, I wouldn't mind posting a list of reading materials although I've not necessarily read all of them and don't necessarily 100% agree with the approaches either, it would just be to read around the basics. For example Dr. Perricone has written a fair number of them and he's obsessed with eating salmon and sticking people on almost exclusive salmon diets, yeah you'll glow like nothing else (provided you eat the very pricey wild salmon) but I'm not convinced eating only for skin health is sensible, I get the same effect with fermented cod liver oil. He's also obsessed with a skincare ingredient, DMAE, that's from his research and patented by his brand but it's very controversial. In short, many of these books have something to sell you outside of the book too and subsequently some are better than others but the basics are usually covered well.

I'll keep quiet until you have yours bo I cant try it out properly (as in actually go out for hours wearing it) until after Xmas now anyway.

Client I hope your head is feeling ok today!

Hi and welcome Suze

Tbf I tried Dr Perricone's skin 'diet' when these threads first started and it honestly worked. For me anyway. Only did it for two weeks but it helped kick off my better skin routine. I don't think I followed it word for word but took some of the basic advice on. My main concern was acne though and it seems mine is caused by hormone imbalances and some food sensitivities so for me it was good. Haven't ever used any of Dr.P's products.

Yeah I don't think the diet is bad or even questionable like most faddy diets are but there are some variations and one is pretty much eating salmon three days straight to prepare for a special event or something and it's just a bit odd. The basic Perricone anti inflammatory diet is a just a very sensible, high-ish lean protein with a preference for fish, good fats, moderate to low complex carbs, low glycemic index, etc. Aside from a special mention for watercress, turmeric and blueberries that's the standard advice of a whole and varied diet that most doctors recommend.

I've eaten like that for a long time (nearing a decade, I think) as recommended to me because of PCOS and while it's been good for my skin I'm not sure how much of a difference it makes (big difference for the PCOS though).

Many with PCOS do have major hormonal acne though, which I've never dealt with and my diet before switching wasn't that drastically different, slightly higher in carbs and I still ate sugar and I probably eat a bit more fish than I did then. Sensitivity has always been my main concern so potentially I didn't really have much to gain for my skin with diet as others would/will.

And please tell me anyway Enid, I actually suspect they're not still in New Jersey but they just haven't been processed in Europe yet and I'll probably see some sort of sign of them this coming week.

I think I probably can although limited in choice, I'll have a browse tomorrow when I'm out of the sticks. Would be good to find one I can get here as shipping can easily take 3 months plus if it arrives at all.
The diet thing is interesting I find nutrition fascinating as alot of my job is formulating animal diets. Although all that salmon would get your skin glowing long term it would probably have some pretty negative effects. Diet definitely influences my skin with a lot more cystic spots etc when I've eaten badly and not drank enough but I'd agree that generally a relatively health balanced diet should be enough. Unless you know you have a food sensitivy etc

Think that was the one I did bo. And I intend to get back to eating less sugar after Xmas.

Sooo I tried the Pat Mc lipstick this afternoon whilst cleaning the bathroom. (The absolute glamour!) and I really like it. The texture is gorgeous. Hard to describe but it's creamy/satiny without feeling like it's going to come off quickly. Very smooth. Shape of the bullet is excellent. Good for shaping without using a pencil (which I never use). Lasted well. Colour is Sorry, Not Sorry and leans a bit warmer than I thought it would but after about half an hour it looked the cool berry I was expecting so maybe it's just my lips. It's bold but very wearable.

I love the little gold lips on the tube. I know you weren't keen bo but I love a bit of kitsch. Weighty tube, feels nice.

In all I'm very pleased with it. Well worth the £10! Probably worth the usual £35 too tbh.

bo I hope you like yours too. Fingers crossed they're on their way.

That's interesting Out. Do you make pet foods or work with farm animals maybe?

My skin is heavily influenced by what I eat but I'm chronically ill with cfs and fibromyalgia, which is Doctor speak for we don't know wtf is wrong with you, so who knows what's going on with my system.

Right now there's a lot of cream, chocolate and dips going on.

This interview gives a pretty good coverage of the Perricone anti inflammatory diet. Forgotten about dairy, he's not anti dairy as much as other dermatologists seem to be.

My lippies have arrived in Germany so 🤞 they'll get here by Tuesday Eve or Friday, flying out Friday evening so hopefully I'll actually get to see them this year 🎉

Is the packaging nice quality, because I'm expecting them to be a bit kitsch I figure they were a bit naff plastic. The lipstick itself sounds very promising anyhow.

List of books here, I have an Amazon list as well but I can't quite tell that it's not displaying my name so I'm still figuring that out but I'd suggest not ordering hard copies of these anyhow the digital versions are a lot cheaper and in some cases the only options.

bo I compared the tube packaging to my Chanel lipsticks (as they're also black and gold), and it's a much thicker heavier plastic. So decent quality I'd say. I like the patterned cardboard box the tube comes in.

Thanks for the links bo

DH has the bad science one. I'll borrow it.

Thanks for the reading list - that’s the boring bit betwixt Christmas and New Year sorted! Will be reading them all with a critical eye and big pinch of salt.

Has anyone preordered Caroline Hirons new book? Apparently it’s already a number 1 bestseller and not out until April. I am wary, but then it might actually be quite a good resource to explain the basics?

I don't rate her at all. Just not very consistent and her online conduct has been very questionable.

Yes that’s what I’m starting to think. Not just her but all the main beauty bloggers. I’m not sure who to trust. I’m veering away from Social Media because it’s so fake... I can’t stand most of the instagrammers video stories.... (not picking on CH personally) the format is so cringeworthy and most people can’t pull it off. Lots of gurning/ hair twirling/ duck lips/ affected sighing etc. I’d be a total disaster too! Very few people are naturally good at- and have the training - to do video presentation. It’s just so cringe. I think many of them have also lost sense of reality. Mumsnet S&B suits me better

Enid I work with farm animals but have training in pet food also. Despite this my human nutrition knowledge is awful and my diet is definitely not what it could be.
Will be checking out those books thankyou bo definitely with a pinch of salt though as it's rare to find a book/article that isn't trying to sell you something even in the animal world

Out Sounds very interesting. I don't think anyone's diet is what it could be atm. 😬

The Cerave hydrating cleanser arrived today. It’s amazing! Never knew such a product existed. Plus it’s so cheap. I’m praying that my skin likes it. Thank you so much for recommending it! I double cleansed with the Cerave this evening - I’m avoiding using my votary cleansing oil now as I’ve got 2 big spots on my chin. Could be hormonal. But in case it’s sensitivity, I’m going to pare back on products, especially oils and actives. I’ll keep it simple with the same moisturiser am and pm (malin and goetz vit E) and just change up the serums morning and night. I’m going to avoid using any acids until the spots are gone.

I visited Space NK today to purchase a full size of the M&G moisturiser. Unfortunately it was OOS, they said it’s popular. I was also eyeing up potential gift boxes for the sale. Nothing took my fancy. I really liked a couple of Surratt eye products but I wouldn’t get any change out of £50! The hourglass eyeshadow is unlikely to be discounted.

Unfortunately they don’t sell Timeless so I will buy that direct from the link Bo posted. I had a look at their DE products. There’s quite a big range. I tried the vitamin C serum because I thought I could use my points for that, and it was bright orange. After reading about vitamin C last night it says this means it’s oxidised so no good- is that true? I asked the assistant if it was just because it’s the tester... but she said the DE serum is always orange and that’s how it’s manufactured. Perhaps they dye it to make it look fresh and conjure up oranges? The expiry dates were all April 2020 and I read in articles that it needs to be fresh to be effective. So I’ll pass and buy the Timeless early next year. It’s much more affordable than the DE anyway.

Not sure what I’ll spend my points on now. They don’t last that long. Sale starts online tomorrow

The CeraVe is such a lovely no fuss cleanser; to me it's like cleansing with a silk. I tend to use it in the morning as an am cleanse.

Merry Christmas everyone. 💫🐌 I hope you all have a lovely day whatever you're doing.