🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Is Everyone Having Botox Without Me? 💉

[botemp]

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For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

NEW SERIES:

So You Want To Buy A Retinoid - A Guide

December 2019: Time for The Snailies way more reliable and better than the MN recommends annual roundup (yes I'm still bitter about them quoting me in isolation and making me sound like a wanker please don't revoke my special image allowance privileges, MNHQ )

Also: Thread 20 in time for 2020!!! Ahem, where are my presents?

just delurking to say that I've just started using tretonoin as a result of this thread.

have also started using vitamin c serum. using the ordinary, which I know you all hate, but I bought it before I read the thread properly. it's definitely making my skin better, but as you've all said, it's quite irritating so I'm going to switch to the Timeless one.

thanks for all the advice on here, it's much appreciated - I read all the fact sheets in the OP!

How did I not know about this thread?! I've found my people.

I'm working my way through the space nk beauty advent calendar - lots of brands I've never used before. Having mixed results. I'll share all as I go! (If anyone is interested!!!)

This was the reply from Dermatica...

^Thanks for getting in touch with us.
When using your Dermatica treatment, it is best to use a very simple skincare regime alongside your treatment, with a simple cleanser, moisturiser and SPF only.
We would not recommend using any other treatment containing active ingredients or exfoliants.
Please
avoid acids like salicylic acid, AHA, BHA, glycolic acid. Hyaluronic acid is ok to use as it is a very good moisturiser. ^

thoughts?

@Karcheer sounds about right - I guess they have to aim at the lowest knowledge? So you don't want someone slathering acids all over daily while they're using it!
I'm using tret and my routine is v simple on tret days. If I'm not using it then I may use a BHA

Sallie, I use it on non Tret days.

It is the sensible advice with Tret not to mix it with too many other actives, Karcheer. I'd argue BHA is not a full on exfoliator like AHA but as Client says assuming lowest common denominator knowledge means the general advice will follow a rather safe than sorry approach and that response does read like a stock answer. IME BHA becomes a bit redundant with regular Tret use, it's more effective for keeping pores clear for me than BHA so you may not be missing it if you're using Tret as instructed every night at a higher dosage.

Welcome Bernard, glad to hear we've been helpful on here and you've started on Tret, hope all is going well with that. Welcome to you too, doadeer.

I'm reading back at the moment, Client, I'd been looking at the jessicurl products, specifically the gel (the styling cream will probably be too heavy for me) as they're glycerine free. Do you find that makes results more consistent in our climate? Is the spiralicious very stiff?

Not very, I scrunch the crunch out when my hair is dry. It's consistently good for me - I use the rocking ringlets and spiralicious and would repurchase over and over! I wouldn't say it's a hard hold gel, it's quite a runny consistency
I like mixing it with the curl keeper gel
Tried flora and curl gel today but it's just not as good < eyes up cupboard of now redundant gels >

Happy new year everyone,
I've not done anything exciting recently just getting into the habit of double cleansing and carrying on with BHA sadly it looks like I'm going to run out before I can get any new stuff to arrive. Its definitely helped alot in the last few months with keeping my skin looking clearer and brighter. My main problem is still spots on my chin/jaw line. I'm pretty certain they are at least partly hormonal due to there clockwork like appearance monthly.
What is this magical tret you all talk of? I'm in a country where I cant get any big brands but can buy whatever the hell I like over the counter. They'd happily hand over morphine and a needle if I asked sweetly enough.

Thanks Client, I might get myself a little mini size to avoid a cupboard full of gels 😱 I've been experimenting with several products and trying hard not to buy all the things in the process...

Out it's Tretinoin (or retinoic acid, brand name Retin A usually but does by several brand names), get some if you can get hold of it but considering you've burned your skin quite a bit altro it's probably not ideal as it makes you very photosensitive and you need to be super diligent with SPF. Adapalene (brand name Differin) may be a better choice, it's a synthetic form of retinoic acid and is less photo sensitising and irritating. Supposedly better at blackheads and spot management(although that is very different from individual to individual) generally but has little proven anti ageing properties (because no one has bothered to fund the research).

Thanks bo I've been very good with the spf lately and have been slathering it on but if that's the case I'll keep persevering with BHA for now and maybe rethink it around April when the rain appears and the UV index lowers as I'm really trying to avoid further damage from burning. Anti aging is something I've not really given much thought to other than spf I'm still a couple of years of 30 so it's just not been on my radar. Probably should be though!

My other Pat McGrath order finally arrived. Sheesh that took forever.

Out, maybe Differin in the high UV index months alternated with Tretinoin in the lower UV index months would be a workable solution for you?

Happy New Year and welcome back @botemp
What did you think of the Pat Macgrath packaging? I was disgusted by the waste and felt guilty for putting it in the bin. But what was I gonna do with all that black plastic? I wrote an email of complaint ages ago and they never replied

Yeah, that pissed me off majorly, it also gets everywhere as it seems to migrate out of the bin with static air. Also quite a large postage box for the size of lipstick, could have fitted 20 in easily I've seen plenty of people online mention they complained to PM to not send it in all the black plastic, it's not like it even protects anything during transport as it's so flimsy. I don't even want to imagine the state of their warehouse and it must be a H&S hazard, the buggers are slippery. I'm not sure how they're managing to continue stoically ignoring feedback about it with all the plastic warriors fuming. I like the lipsticks although not overly wowed by the uniqueness of the colours as I have been with comparable high end brands, formula and saturation is excellent and they do seem to come alive a lot more on camera. The whole experience has put me off the brand entirely though.

I was accidentally in Paris the other day (long story) and saw some La Bouche Rouge lipsticks, you basically buy a very £££ packaging and you can just refill it with a lipstick component that's around the average price of a high end lipstick. So that or Lisa Eldridge is getting my money the next time I'm in the market for a lipstick.

That’s really bad they’re not listening to consumers and continuing to be so wasteful. Yes about migrating out of the bin! It’s such a horrid material. What ARE they thinking? Agree the box is also unnecessarily large (clearly it’s only purpose is to house said pointless black plastic )

In other news, I have two persistent spots on my chin. They keep flaring up in the exact same day place, never quite going. It could be hormonal (although I’m still bf and haven’t had a period yet) Therefore I’m thinking it could be daily use of the votary cleansing oil. Or maybe even the acids? Is the cerave hydrating cleanser suitable to take spf/ makeup off?

Any suggestions welcome. I’ve been using Origins super spot treatment but it’s done bugger all!

• exact same place (not day)

I forgot to say, I like the PM lipstick. I got a Luxetrance nude (Valletta), probably would pick something a bit darker next time for MLBB... but this little bit 60s and I like it

To her credit when I got my delivery of 'Kylie' products from the US they were all packed in a pretty pink cardboard box with the absolute minimal amount of packaging and all items arrived in pristine condition so it can be done.

I was accidentally in Paris the other day

Off topic but I'm making it one of my goals to be able to say this one day.

I’ve accidentally been to Paris before knew I was going to pass through but wasn’t expecting to spend a day/night there (travel cockup)

Lisa’s lipstick came in a massive box with quite a bit of packing but at least it was all recyclable and said so in massive letters on the box. Still a bit daft though as could have easily used one 1/4 of the size.

Blue acids can cause a bit of purging in some people but the way you’re describing the spots they do sound hormonal. Are they those under the skin lumpy ones with no head? I find P50 good for seeing them off but it’s expensive and you’d have to ditch any other acid toners you’re using. I think cerave probably would get most makeup and spf off if you double cleanse with it, but you’d likely need a separate eye makeup remover, especially if you use waterproof/longwear mascara.

Yeah, travel cock up. Booked a direct flight with KLM but due to engine troubles we were some of the lucky few that could still depart the same evening to Paris with Air France, only we missed the connecting flight and then were offered really annoying further flight options -several mind numbing hours at CDG or a full day in Paris and a high speed train return of our choosing after a quick shower in the Air France lounge. Not a hard decision to make at all.

I can sort of accept packaging needs to be large enough not to get lost somewhere and be able to carry export documentation but A6 would have been fine. Net A Porter usually send their cosmetics in a branded clear padded ziplock bags of pretty high quality, yes, it's plastic but I reuse them to travel with as they're the exact size required for carry on items and the padding means I don't overstuff it and rip the thing trying to close it Selfridges is good with teeny tiny cardboard boxes too. Plenty that get it right, I had some very eco conscious ones recently but tbh I've forgotten which companies they were, was quite impressed with it at the time though, tape, padding, packaging was all plastic free and recycled and further recyclable.

I stumbled across a Timeless hyaluronic acid and B5 in TKMaxx yesterday. Haven't really contemplated any of their other products tbh. Had been meaning to buy an HA product again as long haul travel and differing temperatures have left me a bit red, dehydrated and sensitive. It's been a while since I sampled Skinceuticals HA+B5 but it seems very similar and very different from the Ordinary one (only tried that one on the back of my hand tbf). It's also soothed and calmed my skin quite well after single use, very pleased with it so far.

Blue, lots of Cerave hydrating Cleanser would probably get makeup and SPF off but it's not ideal. I'd probably just hack it a bit and add half a squirt to the normal amount of Votary and apply to dry skin before emulsifying as you then add water activated surfactants into the formula from the Cerave. I sometimes do this when I'm not wearing much and refer to it as a lazy double cleanse. To answer your question from a while back, I suspect (no evidence, just my personal anecdotal suspicion) that sauna face is a precursor of rosacea. It definitely runs in my family and the response to product is similar to how skin with rosacea reacts to heavy formulas. Particularly those with room temperature solid fats like butters, shea butter high up in the INCI, quite common in moisturising products, is usually a guarantee of unpleasantness for me.

I picked up some items from Boots today and they now come packaged all in brown cardboard. I was impressed as they used to always come in a plastic bag. It was an appropriate size. In fact it was a similar size to the LE box so I guess they're all being made at the same place possibly?

I think if they were making too many different sizes then that would cause a different kind of waste. At least they're trying. The LE boxes were the perfect size for my items to be fair.

I only got one lipstick from LE Tant so it was somewhat sad and lonely in the big box but absolutely everything (apart from the lipstick itself) was recyclable so I’ll let her off. My pet hate is those styrofoam bits, hoping they’ll be banned soon.

I’ve looked at that timeless HA Bo but the Vichy mineral 89 suits my skin so decided not to rock the boat, sounds promising though so might give it a try next time.

My Verso sample turned up, they’ve actually put two in but one had leaked. Wonder if they’ve had complaints about leaking so started sending two in the hope one would arrive intact

The peanuts!!! They drive me mad, got some eco biodegradable versions a few months back in a giant box and they took up half the waste bin they did say you could put them on your compost heap, as if everyone has one of those and wouldn't they just fly away

I actually saw some Verso in TKMaxx yesterday so worth looking out for, it was the dark spot fix, nr. 6, it was €75, I think that's half off, I'll have to look it up. Eye serum at half price would be a nice find.

My Timeless serum was €10 and had the manufacturing date on it which was recent so it was worth the gamble, not sure if I otherwise would have ordered it from the online shop, Vichy is certainly more affordable although I tend to go through it quickly. I suspect there may be some more floating around in other TkMaxxes with the new packaging introduction rollout recently. I know Angie from Hot and Flashy is a fan of the Timeless matrixyl, I'd give that a go if I saw it even though I'm a peptide sceptic beyond it being a nice hydrator.

Hi all! Just a quickie - I'm going to London for lunch today, and have no desire to go makeup/skincare shopping at all! It's like the real TsM has been abducted by aliens!! I think it may have something to do with the fact that my skincare has become routine but effective and I've found a few makeup products that work really well - all thanks to this thread

Now, if LE lipsticks were available in stores, then I'd be all over them!

If my mood changes and I get the chance for a browse, where would you advise me to go, oh wise ones?....

Harvey Nichols would be my first choice as their beauty hall feels a bit more unique in terms of sourcing. That or Liberty's just for the charm of it really (and there's the world's biggest TKMaxx I've ever been to just a half a block away on Oxford Street, the ground floor is pretty much all beauty). I was quite underwhelmed by the mythical Selfridges beauty hall, very busy and noisy and seems to be famous insta makeup brands heavy.

Not really makeup and skincare (there's a SpaceNk on the way though) but I really enjoyed the newly developed coal drop yards, gorgeous chocolate from Alain Ducasse, some lovely smaller independent jewellery and multibrand Wolf and Badger is really nice to visit and it's right by King's Cross station if you're travelling in and out through there.

Thanks Bo - we ended up doing an awful lot of "walking and talking", got some chocolates in Fortnum's and had lunch in one of Ottolenghi's places (another couple of hours chatting)! So, no beauty shopping this time but I've noted your suggestions for next time :)

I bought the timeless vitamin c serum recently and really like it, it doesn't seem to be affecting my rosacea either so I'm really pleased! I have also tried a new foundation - l'oreal infallible pro glow and it seems pretty good so far.