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Original poster

Child maintenance payments going up

244 replies

C96x · 21/08/2023 11:23

Hi everyone,

I’m abit stumped here- my other half’s CSA payments have gone up since his daughter no longer wants to come to stay with us(age 9) we respect her wishes even though it’s not nice to not be able to see her due to location.
His CSA payments have gone up which quite right but they have gone up so much that we now are making ends meet- I get that she is now full time with her mum but I really do not agree with the amounts CSA agree too especially when we have mortgage to pay for. This will also impact if she ever does want to come over as we won’t have the money like we used to, to go places/ days out etc…

Mum has other children who she gets CSA payments for as well as child benefit, they also receive free school meals too (she’s an open person). as well as living with parents.

there’s probably nothing we can do here but do CSA take in to count mortgage payments when it comes to earnings? my partner has had access/ overnight stays since she was 1 so all of sudden to have this extra increase each month outgoing now it’s a shock to the system. any advice would be appreciated!

Just to add Dad will pay what he is expected too always has and always will

OP posts:
caringcarer · 21/08/2023 19:56

CMS is calculated on gross income not net so posting his net income is pointless. What does he earn before deductions? He should be paying a percentage of that dependent on how many DC he has. £400 per month is a very small amount to pay for a DC.

Snoken · 21/08/2023 19:57

Oneforjoy · 21/08/2023 19:39

@Snoken
NRP shouldn’t have to pay half, refer to my PP

That’s true, there are other variables taken into consideration. I was more reacting to the idea that £400 would be super generous when you spend zero time, effort or other money on your child.

MeridianB · 21/08/2023 20:18

The average cost of raising a child in the UK is £938, so he’s not even covering half the cost of the average child.

Presumably this number includes rent/mortgage and bills. My understanding was that CMS assumes parents pay for their own homes unless otherwise agreed and the child support is for the child’s clothes, food, etc?

As I said, I’m not disputing that some parents aim to pay way too little. But lots of posters are saying £400pm from the NRP is not enough. So what would you like to see as the minimum for a 9yo? Setting lifestyle aside, on average, how much does a 9yo cost per month?

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 21/08/2023 20:21

My understanding was that CMS assumes parents pay for their own homes unless otherwise agreed and the child support is for the child’s clothes, food, etc?

Housing is included. Maintenance is a contribution to everything a child needs including housing, food, clothes.

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 21/08/2023 20:23

CMS takes no interest in what the money is used for - some RP’s will use it for food and clothes only, some will use it for housing and bills as well.

It’s simply a contribution from the NRP of a set percentage of their income.

It’s not meant to simply cover the basic cost of a child, or half of it, if that was the case it would be a fixed amount.

MeridianB · 21/08/2023 20:29

OK, thanks for clarifying.

Snugglemonkey · 21/08/2023 21:12

MeridianB · 21/08/2023 17:17

I agree that in many cases CMS amounts are derisory.

But money from the NRP is supposed to cover half the living costs for a child, with the other half met by the RP. So are you saying that £800 doesn't cover the living costs of a 9yo for one month?

Show quote history

It would not cover my 7 year old, no.

whynotwhatknot · 21/08/2023 21:40

cms is now based on gross pay not net and the only deducion is for nother child they live with

Pinkjacket22 · 21/08/2023 21:46

nationallampoons · 21/08/2023 16:11

My ex cannot afford CMS either but went on to have more children. That I don't understand

Same here. My ex stopped paying maintenance the month his new child was born and they have not even met the new baby. The cost of raising them on my own does keep me awake worrying at night but I'm mostly worried about the effect on their self esteem of him so blatantly ditching them for the new baby. It's a really unfair system.

Oneforjoy · 21/08/2023 22:00

CMS is gross pay after pension contributions

OhamIreally · 22/08/2023 00:02

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 21/08/2023 20:23

CMS takes no interest in what the money is used for - some RP’s will use it for food and clothes only, some will use it for housing and bills as well.

It’s simply a contribution from the NRP of a set percentage of their income.

It’s not meant to simply cover the basic cost of a child, or half of it, if that was the case it would be a fixed amount.

It's interesting though. If CMS is not meant to cover half the cost of raising a child (and I've seen that said often) where is the rest of the money supposed to come from?

The cost is the cost is the cost. That child has to be housed, fed, clothed, entertained. So if the NRP only "contributes" 20%, where is the other 80% coming from?

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 22/08/2023 00:12

OhamIreally · 22/08/2023 00:02

It's interesting though. If CMS is not meant to cover half the cost of raising a child (and I've seen that said often) where is the rest of the money supposed to come from?

The cost is the cost is the cost. That child has to be housed, fed, clothed, entertained. So if the NRP only "contributes" 20%, where is the other 80% coming from?

Show quote history

The cost isn’t simply the cost though. Children live in different areas, they have different activities and the likes, and very many of them are linked to their parents combined income.

The NRP has to give their amount (and I don’t agree with the %, very few RP’s only give 16% of their income) and that combined with the RP’s gives the child their lifestyle. Be that Prince, pauper or something in the middle.

It’s also one of the reasons that benefits don’t take maintenance into account as income. The biggest reason is how shit the CSA (now CMS were) at collecting, but it’s also partly why.

LoveThisUsername · 22/08/2023 00:15

Whatthefuck3456 · 21/08/2023 14:13

If the mother is just accepting her child doesn’t want to go, and is not working with the father to try and fix the situation. No way should she able to get more money from him, I wouldn’t be suprised OP if the mum found this out and planted the seed in your sd’s head she doesn’t want to go. I know several mums who would do this for money so they don’t have to work and can scrounge from benefits and their childrens fathers 🤢

So do I, its disgraceful behaviour.

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 22/08/2023 00:16

I’m not giving an opinion on if it should cover half btw - just that that is not what it’s for.

one of the early things in my training when I briefly worked for the shit show that is CMS. 90% of guys I phoned would complained they paid way more than the half cost.

One guy called me, a random CMS worker, a greed man hating cunt for disagreeing with him that every man should pay the same. Apparently a bin man and a premier league footballer should pay the same, as should he despite earning a lot as “kids cost what kids cost and they don’t need more than any other kids”

FarEast · 22/08/2023 07:20

OhamIreally · 22/08/2023 00:02

It's interesting though. If CMS is not meant to cover half the cost of raising a child (and I've seen that said often) where is the rest of the money supposed to come from?

The cost is the cost is the cost. That child has to be housed, fed, clothed, entertained. So if the NRP only "contributes" 20%, where is the other 80% coming from?

Show quote history

@OhamIreally statistically speaking, women with children are generally very much poorer after divorce; men are very much richer. We still have a huge problem of female poverty.

Peopke say “oh, second families are always discriminated against “ but the simple fact is, if you have children already, you need to look after them first before you start a second family.

DinnaeFashYersel · 22/08/2023 07:30

Caprisunny · 21/08/2023 13:56

It is acceptable reasoning. What would you like her Mum to do? Force her to come to you?

40k take home is £3300 per month. Less the Payment for his child you have £2900 to live on, plus your wage? Even if nursery fees cost the equivalent of your full wage you still have nearly 3k per month to live on.

40k after tax is £2.5k per month.

Caprisunny · 22/08/2023 07:37

DinnaeFashYersel · 22/08/2023 07:30

40k after tax is £2.5k per month.

Show quote history

It’s 40k take home. As in 40k is what goes into the bank account. After tax and pensions.

40k divided by 12 isn’t 2.5k. That’s a take home of 30k.

BanditsOnTheHorizon · 22/08/2023 07:38

£354 is what he should be paying if it's one child, he never has overnight and you've one shard dc at home.

Can you imagine how much more it would be if 'you' were the ones that had his dc 24/7? You'd have to pay more rent on a bigger house with another bedroom, food, clothing, clubs and all the other stuff that dc need? I bet it would be more than £350 a month.

SheilaFentiman · 22/08/2023 08:36

Caprisunny · 22/08/2023 07:37

It’s 40k take home. As in 40k is what goes into the bank account. After tax and pensions.

40k divided by 12 isn’t 2.5k. That’s a take home of 30k.

Show quote history

I think OP later clarified she meant £40k gross

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 22/08/2023 08:41

SheilaFentiman · 22/08/2023 08:36

I think OP later clarified she meant £40k gross

Show quote history

The OP said both so nothing really clarified…

£40k take home so after tax sorry should have put that!

Sorry no arrears it is £40k take home before tax

GrannyGoggins · 22/08/2023 08:45

Snoken · 21/08/2023 12:17

Doesn't sound like you would have space for her to come and stay anyway as you are in a two bed place with a toddler so I am not so surprised that she doesn't want to stay over. If she lived full-time with you you would have to have a three bedroom place and it would most likely cost you even more than the £400 he is paying her mum at the moment.

Kids don't need their own room. The 9 year old would have to share with the toddler while she stays over. I definitely wouldn't be buying a bigger house when the person doesn't even live in the house.

SheilaFentiman · 22/08/2023 08:52

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 22/08/2023 08:41

The OP said both so nothing really clarified…

£40k take home so after tax sorry should have put that!

Sorry no arrears it is £40k take home before tax

Show quote history

Ah, ok! V confused now.

roseheartfly · 22/08/2023 11:21

I'm going to say the unsayable.

CMS is does not work. It's a shitty shitty system.

For the parents who have majority care, in most cases the other parent can duck and dive and avoid paying a reasonable amount. It's typically the mother who is a victim of this but can be the father too.

For the NRP who are PAYE, there's no where to hide. And usually it drives behaviour like a child not spending time with the NRP because it's financially better for the RP to have the majority of nights. In our case, grandparents are used instead of dad because mum likes the extra money. Controversial but true. CHILD MAINTENANCE cripples my OH. He pays it and (far too much based on a two night majority that his ex has). There is zero he can do about it.
It doesn't take into consideration partners earnings. Nor should it.

It doesn't take into consideration basic needs of the NRP to be able to have a home over their head for the child ( not matter how humble the house is). Any comments about selling are from dimwits.

It even uses no guaranteed bonuses and commissions from the previous year to pay to the Rp.

In short, you are just going to have to deal with it and hope and pray that it's benefiting the child. That's the only way I can cope with it. Perhaps people now understand movements like fathers for justice.

In terms of the other aspect about the child not coming. I know that's not the point of the post but it's really not something dad should just accept. Without causing too much trauma all children need to know their parents worked hard for them. Please relook at this. CMS might be shitty but this little girls deserves a dad to try.

roseheartfly · 22/08/2023 11:25

Advice.

Talk to Mum.

Agree an amount that's fair that dad can afford and that the little one needs.

Agree to split all other costs as they arise etc.

If that's not possible you will just have to deal with it.

Willyoujustbequiet · 24/08/2023 02:11

As many others have said it's the bare minimum and in no way reflects the reality of the costs of raising a child. It's a disgrace when people go on to have further children but complain about the responsibility of providing for existing ones.

Fathers for Justice are a bunch of deadbeat misogynists who couldnt give a shit about their children. Their only reason for existence is to stick it to the women who have wised up and seen them for abusive men they are.