Child maintenance payments going up

[C96x]

Hi everyone,

I’m abit stumped here- my other half’s CSA payments have gone up since his daughter no longer wants to come to stay with us(age 9) we respect her wishes even though it’s not nice to not be able to see her due to location.
His CSA payments have gone up which quite right but they have gone up so much that we now are making ends meet- I get that she is now full time with her mum but I really do not agree with the amounts CSA agree too especially when we have mortgage to pay for. This will also impact if she ever does want to come over as we won’t have the money like we used to, to go places/ days out etc…

Mum has other children who she gets CSA payments for as well as child benefit, they also receive free school meals too (she’s an open person). as well as living with parents.

there’s probably nothing we can do here but do CSA take in to count mortgage payments when it comes to earnings? my partner has had access/ overnight stays since she was 1 so all of sudden to have this extra increase each month outgoing now it’s a shock to the system. any advice would be appreciated!

Just to add Dad will pay what he is expected too always has and always will

@Ellabellabow

Also, it’s not quite accurate to interpret my post as implying that people can afford £400 per child. CMS payments only rise by a couple of percent for the second and third child. Ie a parent on the same salary paying for two children would it pay double the amount of maintenance as the OPs DP is paying , it would be more but only slightly.

That’s part of my point - £400 is a huge amount to send outside of the home to support one member of the family for the time they spend outside of the home. So you said you’d be laughing all the way to the bank. My DH pays similar (slightly more before anyone takes umbridge) plus extra here and there when his ex says she needs £100 for shoes/glasses/something else.

Theres no “only slight” increase because his other two children live with him. So he couldn’t allocate £800 pcm for those. That would be £1200 that’s not going towards his own household bills (where his eldest has a room and stays), or the household pot. The biggest expense is obviously childcare for the youngest but then DH supports with that in the holidays for his non resident child too.

I’m not saying he shouldn’t pay or it’s too much. I’m saying it is a significant proportion of his take home pay allocated to one family member, who then has additional expenses by virtue of them being a member of our household too. It’s not “laughing all the way to the bank money” £450 is still a significant expense. Plus Mum should also be contributing - now this one child looks pretty expensive in comparison to my own and that’s the point.

A 9yo who has always seen her dad regularly doesn’t just stop visits, something really awful must have happened.

I don’t care how much debt/mortgage/nursery fees you have, dsd doesn’t even want to see either you, why should her mum have to find the extra funds needed because of whatever has happened between you and dsd?

How is £3,333 per month more than most couples put together? I'm not sure that's right at all. That's a low monthly income for 2 people.

If a couple both work full time minimum wage is £3170 before tax and ni a month.

According to the tax calculator that’s £2750 a month. Again assuming they both work full time.

That makes a FT salary £38k per year.

National min wage is £10.42 per hour. The salary is around £20,590 which is a take home of around £1500.

Are you timesing it by two? Only the parents salary is used for CMS. So I’m not sure if your point?

As you can see by the quote above my post, it was a reply to pp

Sorry I think I lost the chain of conversation. I just thought the figures sounded off. Still it illustrates that £400 isn’t a measly sum in comparison to take home salaries.

OP states that this is AFTER tax that he brings home £40k. That's equivalent to both parents earning £24k per year (or, more likely, one earning a lower PT salary and handling school pick ups/drop offs and another earning a higher salary), which I would say is about average for a couple with children. That would apply to, for example, a TA and a teacher.

That’s part of my point - £400 is a huge amount to send outside of the home to support one member of the family for the time they spend outside of the home.

Totally agree @KatesCoke

CMS is a percentage though. The more you earn the more you pay. So if you were earning minimum wage you'd pay a lot less.

Yes - but when you hear that £400 isn’t a lot - the perspective that £400 is nearly a third of a monthly take home for someone on minimum wage it can’t also be an insignificant amount.

It’s either a fair chunk of money or it’s not. Whatever the NRP is earning I don’t think £400 is a measly sum. Its £400, a third of the monthly take home for someone on minimum wage…

It’s £13 a day.

think of all the essential costs of raising a child
a bedroom
clothes including school uniform and PE kit
food
water, electricity, gas, council tax
before/after school club and holiday childcare
furniture
wifi (it’s expected they have internet access to do homework)
presents and birthday and Xmas

and then someone who has a parent earning c£65k I’d expect
swimming lessons
cinema and theatre trips
days out
holidays
birthday parties
School trips
clubs like brownies
possibly music lessons or sports clubs

It’s £13 a day from one parent, as a contribution towards costs at their house. It is not the beginning and end of a NRP’s expenses for that child. Nor should it be considered the totality of funds available to the RP for that child - the RP will also need to contribute.

I’m always mystified by the “think how much kids cost” comment. I know how much kids cost, that’s how I know £400 pcm isn’t an insignificant contribution. I also know how long it takes me to earn £400.

£20 a month isn’t insignificant if you’re not earning any money. You pay a percentage and the more you earn the more you pay because your child deserves the same opportunities as the children who live with you.
If you think about high profile celebrities who get thousands in child maintenance, should they watch their ex and ex’s children living the highlife and only get less than £400 a month because kids ‘don’t cost that much’?

Well £20 would never be enough as even half of the expenses because of how much life costs. But £400 is a lot more realistic.

The RP “not earning anything” will also be supported by the state. So they’ll never start at zero.

Im not suggesting that celebs children should live a lower standard comparatively, but I don’t agree it’s just the NRP’s responsibility to level the playing field.

Not being funny but if the mother is living with her parents and have other kids I'd ask for a review.

Exactly, £20 isn’t enough but it’s what some people pay because it’s a percentage.
of course it’s the nrps responsibility. They had a child and they should contribute to that child and the more they earn the more their other family benefit so why shouldn’t the child they don’t live with not benefit?
It’s like watching nrps other kids going on school trips and rp child not, they should all have the same opportunities and taking what it’s a small percent of someone’s income ensures that it’s somewhat fair.

It doesn't always mean something terrible has happened. My DSD did this - she's now 16 and has lived with us for a few years. It turned out in the end that it was the only thing in her life that she had control over.

I don’t agree that CMS is fair. It’s a blunt tool that doesn’t really work for anyone (except NRP with wealthy RP’s). I think CMS is used as a replacement/substitute where the courts don’t have jurisdiction. Ideally both parties finances should be looked at as a whole and the needs of all children and parents considered. There’s too many variables and nuances that CMS doesn’t consider.

I also didn’t say they shouldn’t contribute - I said it’s not the sole responsibility of the NRP to level off the playing field where the two parents have different lifestyles owing to income. If you believe that is what is happening you acknowledge that CMS is viewed as support for the RP and not just the child. The only way you could level off standards of living would be to prop a NRP up aswell as the child. That’s not realistic.

I assume you’re paying more than £400 for nursery frees atm?

This.

People seem to forget the RP needs to contribute too, and CMS does not represent the total cost of raising a child. CMS is the NRP’s contribution, in addition to the costs they incur with housing, bills and expenses during contact time.

Interesting point that CMS should go towards housing costs for the RP. Even in the case of 60/40 and some times 50/50 depending on days and nights? Why should the one classed as NRP pay towards the RP housing costs... they will likely have their own.

Especially in most divorce cases the RP gets the lion share of everything. Usually the house.

Cms is not ones size fits all and it's a very very bad system. All the new changes enforcing it are going to create greater hatred and probably a lot more MH/suicide.