Re: are you a dad who pays maintenance?

[pickyourbrain]

I posted this on dadsnet and then saw that no one goes on it!! One poster suggested coming over here? Is that ok?

"Do you pay the CSA guidelines? Or less? or More? Why?

If you pay more how would you react to your new partner asking you not to?

Situation is: I am in a very happy relationship. My DP has a DD (12) with his ex wife whom he has been divorced from for 4 years. We met 6 months after. We have lived together for 3 years. We have his DD half of the time and I have a DD who lives with us 10 days out of 14.

We both work full time. He earns a bit more than me.

His ex wife works 16 hours a week in a minimum wage job (through choice, she has been offered promotions and more hours but chooses not to take them) their DD is at secondary school so there is no child-led reason for her lifestyle choice.

He pays twice the reccommended CM amount. I was always fairly happy with this as I thought it showed dedication to his DD which I admire. However, over the years it has become apparent that this money is not spent on the child as she often comes to us when she needs things and DP pays for half of (eg.) school uniform (etc.) as well as the maintenance.

we are getting to the point where it is clear we are in this relationship for the long haul. I am on his pension, growing old together has been discussed and we want to save for the deposit for a house. Marriage not on the cards as such yet however.

So my issue is, although we can manage on what we have - I have an overwhelming feeling that I am being 'mugged' off because I am working really hard (both in my employment and also in actual care for mine and their child) (and being a bloody good girlfriend too! - home cooked meals every night, nookie on tap - ;)) and yet he is handing money over to her every month out of choice rather than either spending on his DD, spending on himself, or using it to save for the future of our family...

Any insight in to why he is (in my mind) choosing his ex over his life here in our home??!!!!

I want to ask him to stop, but I don't want him to think I'm trying to stake some claim on his money. I couldn't care less if he wanted to spend it on spionsoring rhinos to be honest - I just don't want her to be his priority anymore... is that wrong?

(It's not for the benefit of his child as she is here half of the time and has everything she needs. If he paid his ex less she would have to get a proper job, so his DD wouldnt go without)"

Hi, your posting in the right place now :)

Does your DP know he's paying way over the odds for maintenance? From what I have learnt on here is that a lot of exHusbands pay over the odds as they feel guilty for not being there. If he doesnt it may be worth directing him to the CSA website online calculator.

My DP has always paid maintenance, he's never been well paid £200ish a week so ends up paying the minimum. Even though he has been out of work since last Oct i've been paying his maintenance. Luckily for us DP and I discuss what to do with DSD and exW jointly, so if he was paying well over the odds then i'd probably say something.

oh and if child is at secondary there is no reason why she cant work more hours...

Thank you.

He has looked at the CSA calculator, he is paying £250 more than he should be. (£510).

How can he feel guilty for not being there? He has his DD half of the time. So he IS there.

Or do you mean not there for his ex? That is what scares me I suppose. That he is feeling more of a duty to her household than to ours. Is he therefore more emotionally attached to her than to me?

These are things I think i need answers to if we are to progress.

That is lucky for you Winter. he obviously respects your feelings and doesnt detach the money he gives from taht. I think my DP sees it as 'just money' but to mean it represents his hard work. that's what he earns it in return for after all. I am the one who listens to him discuss his work, and look after the house and children when he works away, and copes with him coming in late, and working from home and in the evenings, and goes to the work socials, and helps him through problems in the office... That in my mind is why our home (him, my DD, his DD and I) should benefit from mine and his income, not his ex.

oh and if child is at secondary there is no reason why she cant work more hours... hoorah I thought I was going mad!

pickyourbrain - i think you've been very reasonable not to bring this up before now. Given that you have DSD half the time, then also paying well over the odds in maintenance is too much, and I don't blame you feeling this way.

Really allnewtakenew ? I have been wondering if I am being territorial and silly. I have my own money and I don't need his after all. I don't want it to seem like I'm asking him to choose me or his DD... although I'd hope after this long he wouldn't see it like that as i am not a selfish person.

Truth is, when i thought it was paying for DSD I didn't mind.

But how can I cope with conversations about how we should cut down on this, or that, so we can save for a house and for the girls to go to university, when he is giving her handouts every month with no question? I really am starting to feel insulted.

Yet he clearly hates her... would ove to get in his head and find out why he does this. Does he still love her? is that what happens when you marry?

I wonder sometimes whether things like this arise because men don't think about things as much as women. I'd imagine that if he really were to think about it, he'd see that the money is being spent on his ex, who chooses not to work more hours, rather than solely for the benefit of DSD. There is no way that £510 is one quarter of the costs for DSD (I say one quarter because he has her 50% of the time, and surely the ex is responsible for at least 50% of the costs when she has the child). Plus she will be getting child benefit and tax credits.

Don't feel you're interfering - you are a couple after all

Money causes so many arguments, so I think that whatever the money issue, you should discuss it with him up front.

Just make sure he understands that you do indeed want the best for his DD. Would you feel better if he put that extra money into a savings account for her?

I have suggested he puts it in a savings account for his DD, I have suggested a family ISA, I have suggested he gives her a percentage of it as pocket money, I have suggected he spends the money he would save on a new bedroom for her at her home with us (which she desperately needs) I have suggested the two of them have a lavish 'daddy daughter day' each month with the money... I have alos explained the fact that it is more than 1/4 of her costs... and also that his ex will be getting TC and Bens etc... He has all the facts... and yet he would still rather choose her way....

HI PYB- I will echo Winter and allnew.

IMO if she is with you half the time and you can get/buy stuff she needs I see no need for him to pay twice the amount. He has a duty to his DD , not his ex.

I even wrote him and email because we have talked about it so much already laying out just how upset it is making me. Still, nothing.

I'm almost at ultimatum time.

"Any insight in to why he is (in my mind) choosing his ex over his life here in our home??!!!!"

my exh pays more than the CSA minimum. it was an agreement between me and him, and one that we have reviewed several times over the years, sometimes revising it down a bit, sometimes up a bit according to his and my circumstances. the fact that it is over the minimum is nothing to do with him choosing me/ds1 over his new family, it is to do with him sticking to the promises he made to me long before his gf came along.

i would be fairly unimpressed if he told me he was reducing it because his new gf didn't like it, as if we think it's fair, i don't see what business it is of hers.

"we think it's fair" But "we" is not who is important surely? In our case "we" is him and I, not someone he divorced over 4 years ago who refuses to support herself...

I'm not the new girlfriend... I am the person who he wants to spend the rest of his life with, who pays half of the rent, bills, buys and cooks all his and half of his DDs food, hostesses his family when they stay, pays for the family holidays with my bonuses, sleeps with him, picks up his prescriptions when he's ill, shares a car with him, lends an ear when he's stressed, cares for his DD as much of the time as her own mother does, bakes him cake on his birthday... you get my drift... What right does she have over his money or loyalty?

Also, an agreement made when they divorced and she hadn't worked for a numbe rof years because she was the SAHP and therefore providing her contribution to the family in that way is very differen tthan what arrangement would be arrived at tnow that the child is at secondary school and she could support herself.

You talk of reviewing your agreement mrsravelstein their agreement has never been reviewed. he has left it exactly as it was at the point of the divorce. before he had any one else to think of and before she could support herself.

Unless of course he does think it's fair, and is just paying me lip service by nodding and agreeing when i say it isnt... in which case i need to re-think this whole relationship

i do understand why it's frustrating for you, i'm just trying to say that although you see it in emotional terms, he possibly does not.

you ask what right she has to his money or loyalty? well, she has a child with him so she does, in my opinion/experience have a right to both money AND some loyalty. i still have a sense of loyalty to my exh despite the fact that i am married happily to somebody else now.... i don't still love him, don't put him first, but there are times when in dh's view i am unduly lenient/forgiving because, for me, it's important to continue to have a good relationship with the father of my son. if your partner challenges the status quo with his ex, that may cause a lot of friction, which may not, in his view, justify the end result.

I suppose that is my issue mrsravelstein that he doesnt feel that the end result, i.e my happiness, is worth upsetting her for. That's pretty sad to me.

I don't think that having a child with someone means they are entitled to your money. The child is of course.

Thanks for your advice, I really appreciate it.

sorry, i did mean the child rather than the wife is entitled to the money.

does your dp realise how much this is upsetting you and that you feel you are 2nd best? perhaps he just sees it in black&white terms, ie that yes he could pay less but he's used to paying it so what difference does it make? what i'm trying and probably failing to articulate is, does he see it as being a choice between upsetting his ex and upsetting you...?

Oh god yes! The child is entitled to the money - of course, she can have all the money she likes! I would spoil my daughter (and DSD for that matter) til my purse was empty... it's the mother having his money I object to.

Hmm.. I thought he understood. I have told him that it is upsetting me. I even sent him an email outlining the ideas I had so that he could use the money to support DSd rather than handing it out to the mother who spends it on herself and leaves DSD to come to her dad when she needs something. His response was 'I am really sorry this is upsetting you, lets talk tonight' We did talk, he said things would change. But when he told her she got all upset and nothing has changed.

How can i interpret that any other way than that he would prefer to upset me over her?

But how can i tell him that without appearing like I'm forcing him to do something he doesnt wan tot do... I don't want him to do as I say against his will an dfor him to resent me. But I can't go on like this either...

Hi All

This thread is so relevant to how I think a lot of SM's feel. Personally over 15% of my OH's salary goes to his ex (well his DD in theory) but he still forks out on top of that for school dinners/school uniform etc and does all the running around - pick ups/drop offs ... petrol isn't cheap!

I just see over 200 quid (tax free!) leaving our household everything month for very little back - we see very little of DSD despite trying endlessly to get more access. OH arrangement with ex is something they've arranged outside of CSA or court, but it does drive me slowly mad ... ! Especially knowing the money doesn't go exclusively on DSD.

I guess the thing with a lot of guys is that they'll do anything for a quiet life, so rather than actively enter into a blazing row with an ex they'd rather not have anything to do with, they just let the status quo continue. And guilt plays its part too. Us women can be great at making guys feel bad ... especially a woman scorned!

For now I just turn a blind eye to it, but I can see it becoming more and more of an issue - especially if we have children of our own as money will be very tight if the current financial arrangement with ex continues. Is it just part and parcel of being a SM or step family? Should I expect more, when I knew he had a DD from the start? Who knows ... all I know for sure is; it ain't easy!

That's the favorite line littlewhiteheart people will wheel it out like quality street comes out at christmas... "you knew he had a child, you knew what you were getting in to"

Well actually NO I didn't, I knew he had a child, and was recently divorced, I guessed it would take a little time for him to move his loyalty from one woman to another and I knew his priority would always be to support his child. What i didn't bank on was that 4 years down the line I be putting in all the work (as enjoyable as it is to be his partner and to have his gorgeous DD living with me half the week) while his ex continues to take nearly £500 quid from my family home every month while she sits on her arse not expected to do anything.

This isnt even about the money. I mean, sure it could be saved towards some of the things we want (house,pension,uni fees,furnature,holidays) but at the end of the long and tedious day it is about the fact he'd rather I was upset than her, because she shouts louder.

I suppose the only way to win would be to shout & cry louder, beleive me, I damn well could. But I don't want that, I don't want to guilt trip the man I love in to doing what I want him to.

"it is about the fact he'd rather I was upset than her, because she shouts louder"

i keep coming back to this because i am sort of on the other side of it so i can - possibly - see where your dp is coming from a bit and i'm trying to defend him and maybe make you see it differently and not be so hurt by it...

my dh has been upset because over the last few years my maintenance money from exh has been negotiated down rather than up. dh feels this is very unfair, and that i should go back to court and ask exh to pay up what he agreed to in the divorce settlement court order. i totally understand his feelings about it, but do i want, years after a very painful and hostile divorce, to get into a another big fight with exh just when we are finally getting on ok? no i really don't, and it doesn't make a big enough difference to me financially to warrant it.

i am sorry that dh feels his feelings are disregarded, but it is not about me choosing exh over him, it is about not putting myself and ds1 through another hideously painful experience. does that make any sense?

sorry my bolding went wrong!

hmm... yes. It does I suppose.

I just wish i knew how to not be so upset by it all.