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Original poster

Re: are you a dad who pays maintenance?

216 replies

pickyourbrain · 27/04/2011 15:07

I posted this on dadsnet and then saw that no one goes on it!! One poster suggested coming over here? Is that ok?

"Do you pay the CSA guidelines? Or less? or More? Why?

If you pay more how would you react to your new partner asking you not to?

Situation is: I am in a very happy relationship. My DP has a DD (12) with his ex wife whom he has been divorced from for 4 years. We met 6 months after. We have lived together for 3 years. We have his DD half of the time and I have a DD who lives with us 10 days out of 14.

We both work full time. He earns a bit more than me.

His ex wife works 16 hours a week in a minimum wage job (through choice, she has been offered promotions and more hours but chooses not to take them) their DD is at secondary school so there is no child-led reason for her lifestyle choice.

He pays twice the reccommended CM amount. I was always fairly happy with this as I thought it showed dedication to his DD which I admire. However, over the years it has become apparent that this money is not spent on the child as she often comes to us when she needs things and DP pays for half of (eg.) school uniform (etc.) as well as the maintenance.

we are getting to the point where it is clear we are in this relationship for the long haul. I am on his pension, growing old together has been discussed and we want to save for the deposit for a house. Marriage not on the cards as such yet however.

So my issue is, although we can manage on what we have - I have an overwhelming feeling that I am being 'mugged' off because I am working really hard (both in my employment and also in actual care for mine and their child) (and being a bloody good girlfriend too! - home cooked meals every night, nookie on tap - ;)) and yet he is handing money over to her every month out of choice rather than either spending on his DD, spending on himself, or using it to save for the future of our family...

Any insight in to why he is (in my mind) choosing his ex over his life here in our home??!!!!

I want to ask him to stop, but I don't want him to think I'm trying to stake some claim on his money. I couldn't care less if he wanted to spend it on spionsoring rhinos to be honest - I just don't want her to be his priority anymore... is that wrong?

(It's not for the benefit of his child as she is here half of the time and has everything she needs. If he paid his ex less she would have to get a proper job, so his DD wouldnt go without)"

OP posts:
mrsravelstein · 28/04/2011 10:54

allnew "Some people are plain not nice - doesn't mean that anyone they've ever been in a relationship with also isn't nice"

my first husband is a fundamentally nice person who was a dickhead to me when we were married, and i am a fundamentally nice person who was a bitch to him when we were married. we brought out the worst aspects of each others' personalities.

that we have both acknowledged our respective dickheadiness and bitchiness to ourselves, each other, and our new partners has enabled us to end up being fairly amicable, and to have both ended up in very happy new relationships.

so i see things as being much less black & white than you do, hence my comment however many pages back about it being rare (though not impossible) for one person to be entirely awful in a marriage while the other is saintly.

allnewtaketwo · 28/04/2011 11:06

Equally I think you assumption that if one person behaves negatively in a marriage also means that the other person does as well, is silly. Clearly it is sometimes the case that people just bring out the worst in eachother, but I don't see what is so complicated in understanding that it is perfectly possible for someone to behave negatively while the other person is not

mrsravelstein · 28/04/2011 11:20

i don't make the assumption that it never happens, i have an opinion that it's rare. hence why i used the word 'rare' rather than 'impossible' in my post.

allnewtaketwo · 28/04/2011 11:22

oh my goodness we are going round in circles somewhat, and detracting from the OP, so I'll stop there. Clearly you have very different ideas about relationships from me, so lets agree to disagree. In my book it's not really so 'rare' for one partner to be a tosser in a relationship without the other having to be so, but if you don't think so then fine Smile

Lasvegas · 28/04/2011 11:39

My DH for many years paid massively over CSA guidelines, most of the money was spent on his ex wife not on the kids. He paid so much as he was worried if he didn't keep ex wife sweet she would turn kids against him and or make access difficult.

When the kids got to 10 and 12 he reduced the money to less, though still over CSA guidelines. As he felt safe that his kids were of age that they had a strong relationship with him, and couldn't be turned against him. The catalist was seeing what a vastly superior standard of living his ex wife had compared to us. She doesn't work and hasn't for 14 years, and both I and DH work and commute long hours.

Yes it is unfair that his ex wife lives in lap of luxury and I but second hand clothes, but I never felt able to criticise the situation, in case cutting back the money led to her preventing access, then my DH may blame me for loosing his kids.

Original poster
pickyourbrain · 28/04/2011 11:45

ScroobiousPip I read on MN countless times that a couples money is their joint money. Our family money is mine, his, and the childrens. That is how I will always think of it. How can i not?

Thanks all.

I don't resent the fact his ex exists. We all have ex's. My ex plays a huge part in DDs life. But that's where it ends. He doesnt support me, financially or otherwise, why would he? I'm not his responsibility.

And my DD is only 8... DSD is 12, she has a mobile phone, a bank account, she can get a bus and she can walk to school... there is no need for her mother to be in our lives.

A lot of people keep harping back to the agreement made 4 years ago and how he is right to stick to it... he also agreed to be married to her for the rest of his life. he agreed to something based on supporting a woman who had an 8 year old child and no means to support herself. His ex also said she want going to allow the DD to stay with him more than 1 night a week, which changed as soon as the papers were signed and moved to half of the time. he is happy with that but a lot of other circumstances have changed - why should the financials stay the same?

droppypoppies you are exactly correct. It would all be much easier if DP told me why he does this. It is infuriating to hear someone repeatedly say they are unhappy with something, put that burden on your shoulders, upset you about it all and then do nothing about it...

OP posts:
Original poster
pickyourbrain · 28/04/2011 11:47

Lasvegas I used to think that was his worry but we did seek advice and were told that because the contact arangement had been like that for 4 years, and DD had always spent half of her time with her dad, his ex couldnt reduce contact at the point where he reduced her money, and for no other reason. The courts don't look favourably on RPs using the days they have their children in order to have more money.

OP posts:
Original poster
pickyourbrain · 28/04/2011 11:48

also Lasvegas did you ever feel hurt by his decision to support his ex over you? Your situation sounds a lot worse than mine as I don't go without.

OP posts:
glasscompletelybroken · 28/04/2011 12:34

Pickyourbrain I have PM'd you.

Smum99 · 28/04/2011 15:04

I think you Dp isn't changing the situation for a number of reasons but I don't think those reasons are because he is favouring the ex over you.

You really do need to ask him directly why he feels the way he doesm. I suspect it's conflict avoidance. He raised it with the ex, she kicked off and he backed down!

How to change it - it seems that you and him don't share a plan for a future, you know you want to be together but you're not actively planning that future - working out how you will get your own place. Maybe if you dp realised he needed extra money to pay the joint mortgage he would be motivated to change.

Just to clarify about CSA calculations - it is not the minimum - it is the amount judged to be fair for the NRP to pay from their income. It is often much more than the child's actual expenses.
Hardly any women who are divorced received just CM - mostly they will have received equity from family home, pension, savings etc. Often as in the case of my DH he gave the ex all the joint assets and was literally left with nothing. He now earns a good salary and pays CM which happens to be a very generous amount for a child.

PYB, Don't be envious of the ex - she has a very uncertain future and she's very foolish if she relies on CM to fund her lifestyle. Your DSD is getting to the age when she will understand about finances and will realise which parent is sensible and hardworking.

Original poster
pickyourbrain · 28/04/2011 15:35

We have discussed how much we need to be saving a month to get a deposit together for a house. Strangly if we each saved £200 a month we could have the deposit in 5 years. But If it is only me saving the £200 because he is paying that to his ex over and above what he should be then it will take us 10 years Sad

You can see why i feel he is choosing to support her over providing for our future..

OP posts:
Original poster
pickyourbrain · 28/04/2011 15:36

PS in 10 years he will be mid 50s and it will be too late to get a mortgage. We need ot act now if we don't want to be working until we're in our late 70s...

OP posts:
follyfoot · 28/04/2011 15:46

In your original post you said that you couldnt care less what he spent the money on as long as it didnt go to her. But now the money seems important to save towards a home.

Can I ask, which is it really? The impression is that you have a problem with him maintaining a relationship with his ex-wife, which is understandable, not necessarily rational, but understandable. And that you are feeling wobbly about that in reality rather than the money. Maybe unpicking what it really is that is bothering you so much (you sound very upset about it all) would help you find a solution?

Original poster
pickyourbrain · 28/04/2011 15:58

I know folly. I doesn't need it to go directly on saving for the house, that was a bit of an aside. It just happens that the amount we need to to save for a house is near to what he over pays her. It is an example of one of the things this family needs as an investment for our future that is going by the way side to support her laziness.

But really, as i have said it's not about the money as such.

OP posts:
Original poster
pickyourbrain · 28/04/2011 15:59

Sorry folly, didnt get to the end of your post. What is really bothering me is that he is choosing to do somethingthat upsets me, in order not to upset her.

To me, it shouldnt matter why it upsets me, only that it does. If I was doing something that upset him, I would end the behaviour instantly.

OP posts:
amberleaf · 28/04/2011 16:18

I think your post at 15:59: shows the real route of this issue;

You're upset as you feel he is putting her feelings before yours.

The money is irrelevant really isnt it?

Original poster
pickyourbrain · 28/04/2011 16:35

It is irrelevent yes.

The thing with feelings in relationships is to me it should be a case of arguing why you feel a certain way and demanding you rpartner changes. You should be able to say - this is how your behaviour makes me feel... and it should cease. It should never be a case of continuing to upset your partner so someone else doesnt get upset or put out.

OP posts:
Original poster
pickyourbrain · 28/04/2011 16:37

sorry I wrote that all wrong should say...

The thing with feelings in relationships is to me it shouldn't be a case of arguing why you feel a certain way and demanding your partner changes. You should be able to say - "this is how your behaviour makes me feel"... and it should cease. It should never be a case of continuing to upset your partner so someone else doesnt get upset or put out.

Ok, so she stamps her feet. Let he rstamp her feet. Because I don't display like that doesnt mean my feeling should be taken in to acount any less does it? I am not a poor communicator. I clearly and concisely explain why I am upset.

OP posts:
amberleaf · 28/04/2011 16:40

I think maybe when its to do with children though [which it being the EX it indirectly is] its not as simple as things can simply cease.

I think you need to pick your battles, things child and EX related are never that simple.

Original poster
pickyourbrain · 28/04/2011 16:42

That's the thing I can seperate though. The child and the ex. Choosing my feelings over his ex's wouldn't mean anything bad for the child. In fact, the child suffers as a result of the way things are currently so he is choosing his ex over me AND his DD.

OP posts:
amberleaf · 28/04/2011 16:42

I can understand that YOU are having a relationship with him NOW but you really cant expect him to change a valid arrangement he has with his EX just because it makes you feel less important than her.

amberleaf · 28/04/2011 16:44

You have to find a different way off thinking about this issue, you are clearly an intelligent person, i just think you are going to send yourself potty over this and possibly mess up your relationship if you see it as something that he should 'pick sides' over.

FuppyGish · 28/04/2011 16:45

The CSA is a minimum amount guideline. Most parents (if they have the means) would like to pay over that minimum to support their children. I don't think you keep saying he's paying double what the CSA require really matters. You should be proud he wants to support his child properly.

You come across as childish, bitter and envious.

Original poster
pickyourbrain · 28/04/2011 16:52

why, amber? Apparently i am the love of his life and next to his daughter the most important and cherished person in the world to him. He should be walking over hot coals for me. What trouble is changing an agreement with a woman he cant stand and who has no desire to treat him with any respect compared to that?

fuppy for the hundreth time. I WANT HIM TO SUPPORT HIS CHILD. I DO NOT WANT HIM TO SUPPORT HIS EX WIFE. He does support his child properly. If youre going to respond at all then read what i have writen. I have ZERO issue with him supporting his child properly.

And I am bitter and envious - it doesnt take a genius to see that. Its not a point of coming across as that - it is me saying "I am bitter and envious, give me advice" childish though Hmm

OP posts:
mrsravelstein · 28/04/2011 17:02

lots of people who have been in a similar situation, including me, have given you advice though, and tried to make you see that your dp is in our opinion NOT putting her before you, but you can't seem to accept that as a valid perspective.

i think you're putting your dp in a very tricky situation and i think you're the main person who is going to end up losing out, which is sad if you are both generally so happy together.

earlier on you talked about wanting things to be 'perfect' and 'completely happy' - in my opinion you are unlikely to find a person in their 40s who doesn't have some kind of 'baggage', and if the relationship is worth keeping then you'll have to compromise a bit.