Re: are you a dad who pays maintenance?

[pickyourbrain]

I posted this on dadsnet and then saw that no one goes on it!! One poster suggested coming over here? Is that ok?

"Do you pay the CSA guidelines? Or less? or More? Why?

If you pay more how would you react to your new partner asking you not to?

Situation is: I am in a very happy relationship. My DP has a DD (12) with his ex wife whom he has been divorced from for 4 years. We met 6 months after. We have lived together for 3 years. We have his DD half of the time and I have a DD who lives with us 10 days out of 14.

We both work full time. He earns a bit more than me.

His ex wife works 16 hours a week in a minimum wage job (through choice, she has been offered promotions and more hours but chooses not to take them) their DD is at secondary school so there is no child-led reason for her lifestyle choice.

He pays twice the reccommended CM amount. I was always fairly happy with this as I thought it showed dedication to his DD which I admire. However, over the years it has become apparent that this money is not spent on the child as she often comes to us when she needs things and DP pays for half of (eg.) school uniform (etc.) as well as the maintenance.

we are getting to the point where it is clear we are in this relationship for the long haul. I am on his pension, growing old together has been discussed and we want to save for the deposit for a house. Marriage not on the cards as such yet however.

So my issue is, although we can manage on what we have - I have an overwhelming feeling that I am being 'mugged' off because I am working really hard (both in my employment and also in actual care for mine and their child) (and being a bloody good girlfriend too! - home cooked meals every night, nookie on tap - ;)) and yet he is handing money over to her every month out of choice rather than either spending on his DD, spending on himself, or using it to save for the future of our family...

Any insight in to why he is (in my mind) choosing his ex over his life here in our home??!!!!

I want to ask him to stop, but I don't want him to think I'm trying to stake some claim on his money. I couldn't care less if he wanted to spend it on spionsoring rhinos to be honest - I just don't want her to be his priority anymore... is that wrong?

(It's not for the benefit of his child as she is here half of the time and has everything she needs. If he paid his ex less she would have to get a proper job, so his DD wouldnt go without)"

He is a bloke and he doesn't want to rock the boat. The set up he has is good, shared care of his dc, he gets to see her 50% of the time the ex he divorced is finally quite and that is not a volcano he wants errupting anytime soon. He has a g/f that he wants to spent his life with and short term his dc is at secondary school so not long in the offing for maintenece payments left.

if though he rocks the boat and suggests paying less to his ex, things may go horridly wrong, his ex may errupt, his dc may be caught up in the erruption.

best to keep quite, money isn't tight and so why create a problem where - well there isn't one, ok the gf doesn't think it is is fair, but thats differnet from the stuation being a problem and its not for long.

he is trying to keep two woman happy, his daughter and his girlfriend, and balance everyone, he can't see that by trying to keep everyone happy he may be upsetting one person as that isn't in the thought process really and thats not saying he is dumb its justs different thinking.

Hmm, very true.

But he's not balancing keeping me and his dd happy. he's keeping his ex happy. Which in turn i guess keeps his dd happy because she doesnt want mum to erupt. But what if I feel like erupting... what then?? Does that matter?

I supose the other problem is that i don't beleive it will end when she turns 18... I mean if he pays more than he has to now to look after hi sex... why will that stop suddenly. If she pulls the victim card in 6 years time and claims poverty why would he suddenly not care?

Grrr you are both so right. Damn people and their adversity to boat rocking!

Now you are looking for problems in 6 years time, that is a bit far away for one and secondly thats a bit like looking for trouble that hasn't even happened yet...

No he isn't keeping you happy, well he is and he isn't but you are there and although you nag a bit about it its not as bad as what could happen if he stops paying as much..men frown and then nod

You are looking at this in an ordered and sensible way as any woman would, thats not how he is looking at this at all.

I would eat my hat if he pays his wife maintenence when his dd turns 18, years ago wives used to get maintenece form their ex but now it is rare and usually for the very rich - are you very very rich ?

Sometimes rocking the boat needs to be done, or it just happens. But really what he wants to do is parent his dd and do that well. That parenting and shared care is not going to happen well if the boat is rocked and his dd only gets to grow up once - he has the rest of his life to spend it with you

Second everything ivykaty44 says.

ivy - I'll be skimming 40 in 6 years time, if I'm going to be expected to support that woman for the rest of my life I'd like to know now so i can get the hell out before i loose my youthful good looks

We are not very, very rich

Why would he suddenly stop wanting to give her money though just because his DD turns 18?

Thanks for the insight in to his mind though. it has helped. He's such a good man, he does want to do what is right.

Why do you think you'll be supporting her for the rest of your life?

I have only ever heard of maintenance continuing after 18yrs when the DC go to uni, and that is optional. You can pay the DD direct then so unless your DSD gave the money to her mum, then you'd not be supporting her anymore.

Have you asked your DP how long he intends on paying maintenance?

i think you'd be very justified in kicking up an enormous stink if in 6 years time he still wants to pay her, but unless his ex has got some major hold over him for reasons you don't know, i can't see why that would happen.

and i think if you can put up with it, he will thank you for being so understanding of his reasons.

sorry i'm incoherent, i meant if you can put up with the current arrangements in the meantime, he'll thank you for it in the long term

Maybe if he told me his reasons i would... what katyivy says makes sense but it's only a stab in the dark - we are assuming what is going on in his head.. When i tell him i think it's wrong, he agrees... but does nothing about it. So... does he agree, or not? He isn't the type of man to continue doing something he isnt happy with. So I guess he is saying he agrees with me, when actually he doesnt. Either way, the communication is not flowing... or he agrees with me and katy is right, he just deosnt want to rock the boat in which case why not tell me that... instead of giving me false hope that it will ever change.

droopy the reason I think it will continue is that at the moment there is no legal reason for him to give her the money, only an apparent moral one. So if he feels morally he has to support her now, why will this change dependant on the age of their child? Those feeling won't turn off just because some candles have been blown out will they?

The boat will still rock, the daughter will still be used in an emotional game of "but we can't survive without you, you chose to leave, I gave up my career for you, I can't afford to heat the house that your child lives in"

My exh pays slightly over what CSA recommend and again was an agreement made before his new partner came along with her children.

I am on a low income because the job I chose fits in around my children ie I don't have to find childcare before/after school and in the holidays and I have very little support from family. I could earn more money but in my opinion would be to the detriment of the children. Even if I earned more money, I would probably be worse off if my exh chose to then reduce my maintenance so him and his new family could have a better life. I rely heavily on what he pays me (never asked for any more even though I'm sure he has had substantial payrises over the years!) The only time I would not rely on that money is when I have a partner too who would hopefully be earning a reasonable amount to help support us.

His share doesn't cover half of what I end up paying out to keep a roof over our heads and only a few luxuries, and I would not survive if this wasn't topped up with tax credits etc.

I actually don't agree that just because a man enters into a new relationship that maintenance should be reduced for his own children - my costs are more now than they were when the agreement was made! He may think I squander the money and she also may have her views but the only person that truly knows is me and I know I do my very best for my children but yes I have the odd treat too - if I didn't I would go mad!

I think you should keep quiet and let your DP sort things out if he feels a reduction is warranted.

But talie101 are your children at secondary school??! I didn't mind so much when his DD needed after school care etc. But she doesn't now.

Does your ex have the children half of the time?

To me, and I don't want to pick at you, but the key here is "to keep a roof over our heads" this is the line his ex uses. She says his maintenanc emoney barely covers half of her rent... So? Presumably she would need a house whether she had a DD or not. Rent doesnt double for each person in the house.

Also, because of the job his ex choses, I could never choose to work less hours because we have to support her in her choice... so is it the first wife who gets the choice ?

I also don't agree with the maintenance going down due to moving in with new children. The CSA takes that in to account and I personally think it is wrong.
The other children are the responsibility or their own mum and dad.

But this isnt a CSA agreement, this is an outdated agreement from when they got married whcih bares no significance to the current situation for either of them.

for whatever reasons, reasons that pre-date your relationship with him, your dp made agreements about access, housing and maintenance with his exw, and it appears that he is basically happy for that set of agreements to stay in place in order to keep the peace.

i don't think that picking over the details of what you think the exw ought or ought not to do in this situation is going to help you. perhaps your dp promised her she wouldn't have to work until their dd was 18. perhaps there is some guilt over something that went on between them during marriage/divorce. your dp hasn't moved the goalposts, and to be fair neither has his exw...

and probably the agreement isn't outdated - my court order for ds1 runs up til he's 18 which i assume is standard. i'm not trying to be aggressive here, but the fact is, the agreement isn't between you and his exw, or even between you&dp and his exw. it's between him and her.

talie101

the job I chose fits in around my children ie I don't have to find childcare before/after school and in the holidays

I could earn more money but in my opinion would be to the detriment of the children.Even if I earned more money,I would probably be worse off if my exh chose to then reduce my maintenance so him and his new family could have a better life.I rely heavily on what he pays meThe only time I would not rely on that money is when I have a partner too who would hopefully be earning a reasonable amount to help support us.

How will you cope when your DC become adults if you haven't met a partner who earns a reasonable amount (however much that is)?

Sorry my bold didnt work properly, but YGWIM?

Also, how old are your DC talie101?

My husband pays more than the CSA would ask for (almost double I think - )he pays £800 a month as well as some living expenses. I would never dream of asking him to reduce the amount as this was an agreement he made with the mother of his child. She does not work full time and the maintenance enables her to work part time. Being a single parent is stressfull and my DH wanted to relieve some of that stress. Mys SS benefits from having a mother who is not over worked and tired.

Wow DSS would love to have some of your understanding! a mother who is not over worked and tired??!! What about Me? I'm over worked and tired!

Everyone in the real world is!

How will you cope when your DC become adults if you haven't met a partner who earns a reasonable amount (however much that is)?

This is a very good question.

mrsravelstein court agreements outdate after 1 year (unless set before 1993) So it is definitely outdated.

The circumstances under which he agreed to them are very different now. But yet he still feels bound to it - that's what I find hurtful.

OP, Have you any idea what your DP's XP spends the money on?

I currently get no maintenance from my XP for my DD, I pay for everything myself, although I am genuinely happy for people who do receive maintenance. However, I think it's a good idea to look ahead. If I was in a position where I was relying on child maintenance to support myself, and if I would struggle to keep a roof over my head and feed myself without the CM, then I would feel dreadfully insecure.
Children eventually grow up, and what then?
Maybe this is a good time for your DP's XP to retrain or further her education so that when the time comes, she will be able to support herself?

hmm not sure that your thinking is correct on the outdated after one year, thats not what the judge in family court took to be the case...and was quite nasty to my ex tbh about stuff in that document that I hadn't even challenged - and I guess a judge would have some knowledge about wehter a court order was outdated etc after 10 years

I work full time myself and often get tired, infact I am typing this in bed! However have my husband, extended family to help and some paid help with housework. My SS's mothers does not have any of these advantages and therefore we are happy to do our but to help.

Maintenance does not need to go directly on the children to benefit the children. We want our stepson to live in a nice home in a safe area, to have a calm home, nice food in the cupboards. able to go on school trips etc. That is what my Dh's other children have so why not his first born?

1 year on is when you can go to CSA and their ruling will overrule a court judgement. I thought that was a well known fact. If you google it there is a lot of info about it.

droopy She earns £400 for herself, she gets £560 in TC, plus £80 CB, She gets £580 from DP and free school dinners, I don't know how much Housing or council tax releif she gets. We feed DSD her dinner 7 days out of 14. DP pays for half of all of DSDs uniform, school trips, shoes, and she has a full wardrobe here and toiletries etc so her mother only needs enough of these things for half a week. DP pays DSDs pocket money and mobile.

So in answer to your question about what she spends the moey on, I would say she spends it on the remaining half of the things dp pays one half of. Which judging on what it costs to have DSD here for half of the week must be about £200. The rest I presaume goes towards her own costs... I don't know what they are.. same as us all I suppose, petrol, food, clothes, hair, make up, nails.. but most of us don't get someone else's boyfriend pay for these things for us.

I'd rather eat my own arm before I wore make up my ex had worked to pay for.