Primary School Auties 11: 2023 is here

[openupmyeagereyes]

Thread 11.

This is a thread for the parents & carers of children with additional needs. Most of us have autistic/ADHD children in primary school, but anybody is welcome to join us to chat x

Links to previous threads below.

Thread 1
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs/3080753-DS-with-ASD-starting-school-Sept-2018-I-am-feeling-overwhelmed
Thread 2
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs/3451020-Reception-auties-2018-19-thread-2
Thread 3
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs/3628263-Auties-transition-to-Year-1-thread-3
Thread 4
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs/3748449-Primary-school-Auties-into-2020-thread-4
Thread 5
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs/3953023-Primary-school-auties-summer-and-beyond-thread-5?pg=1
Thread 6
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs/4166833-Primary-school-auties-spring-2021-and-beyond-thread-6?pg=1
Thread 7
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs/4303826-Primary-school-auties-summer-and-the-new-academic-year-thread-7
Thread 8
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs/4422100-Primary-school-auties-step-into-Christmas-and-the-New-Year-thread-8
Thread 9
www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_needs/4502988-Primary-school-auties-thread-9-spring-summer-2022
Thread 10
www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_needs/4592899-primary-school-auties-10-summer-and-beyond-2022?page=1

Dimples my ds doesn't seem bothered by scary tv shows or movies either. He's desperate to see the new transformers movie when it comes out.

Danni sorry you've had such a nightmare. Ds does the bullying thing too. Thankfully we don't get so much violence anymore. Although I do get fake shot/stabbed at times.

Ahna hope your day is going better.

I'm very relieved to have them both back in school!

Mine does get scared, he was scared watching Puss in Boots.

danni we get some pretty awful behaviour here from time to time including death threats. Always about screen for us though. He’s not yet called me a bully but often says I’m mean etc. when not getting his own way and that he wants to move out.

Oh well least it’s not just ds then. Thanks x

I had his class teacher on one of her many phone calls last week saying ds had told the class he was going to pour acid on his class friends skin to burn it off, she sounded horrified. Asked me where he had heard about acid etc. She’s usually a bit over the top anyway, but I said ask ds, I don’t know why he comes out with these things. I don’t know where he hears them either, but he’s 9 and hasn’t lived under a rock, he’s got a very wild imagination too.

Dh uses salicylic acid soap for his acne, ds has used it in the bath when he shouldn’t have done and I told him it would burn his skin so I think it’s from that. Acid = burn your skin.

I did explain, but I think she thinks I let him sit up and watch coronation street with me! He’d be lucky, I’ve had enough of him by that time 🤣🤣

I know kids say mean things, but I can only remember when I was little telling my mum I was calling childline. That’s as bad as it got lol. So to hear some of the things ds says is really quite shocking to me.

Danni my DS tells me he hates me very often and generally calls me a stupid asshole. He also says things like he is going to stab me in the heart, stamp on my head, push me onto the road. He v rarely says that he loves me or anything nice about me. If I cry DS looks like the cat who's got the cream. He hasn't called me a bully yet but he does call me a meanie.

I think I’m going to need to start building an ark soon. The rain has been ridiculous.

Thanks for all the reassurance that I’m not the only owner of a mini villain! 🤣

School bus was trundling down the street and from the main road I could hear the screaming. I mean ffs 😡😡😡. When it pulled up half the kids had hands over ears the other half fingers in ears. Some looked about to cry. DS looked gleeful. It was piercing. He was killing himself laughing.

why do I have the only child (certainly on the bus) that does this??? Sorry to sound a cracked record. I’m just mortified.

Sorry carrie, it sounds really difficult. It’s a bit early for wine so

Sorry carrie. Not really much you can do is there, you cannot force him to stop screaming (unfortunately) just got to hope it’s a phase and he stops it.

As with everything, I’m sure he’ll stop eventually.

Probably when he loses his voice! 🤣🤣

Not much to be done about that is there, Carrie. I understand your frustration. That's when I struggle the most - when DS does something which distresses other people and he either doesn't register what he has done or doesn't care how they feel. DS hit DD on the head on the way to school this morning. A few minutes later when she was still crying he started shouting at her to stop 'the awful noise'. When I tried to explain that it was his actions that had caused the problem he could/would not accept it. The shouting led to more distressed crying leading to more shouting. Someone in the street just shook their head at us. I thought really, bring it on, I had a lousy day at work yesterday and I am ready for a fight. I didn't of course say that just kept on walking trying to soothe DD and keep calm.

Following on from recent discussions, what are your thoughts on ‘social stories?’. I hadn’t heard of them pre DS school but they are flavour of the month here. They have written one for DS about the screaming. The gist seems to be it upsets people, it hurts their ears, people won’t want to be with him if he screams.

my own view was/ is it won’t make any difference because as Dimples says, DS desire to do this far outweighs any understanding and/ or being remotely bothered about the consequences. I understand the use if for whatever reason the child doesn’t understand the consequence (then they realise it is causing upset) but if they genuinely aren’t bothered then how do they work?

we have talked about challenging behaviours and surely if this worked there would be a book on why we don’t say hurtful things to people/ why we don’t hit our parents/ why we don’t hit our siblings/ why we don’t say to our friends we are going to pour acid on them and… that behaviour would be gone! By virtue of the fact we are all still here does that mean social stories really don’t have any impact? Why are they so laboured in schools then?! 🙄

I think, like with all things, social stories work for some kids in some situations. The one the school made for ds has worked with helping him get into school everyday. But the key with them is repetition and getting ds in the right frame of mind to read it.

Also they don't just have to be about behavioural things, they can be about, going on holiday or Christmas Day etc.

I can see the value of social stories in the context that Liv mentions in terms of preparing a child for a new experience, change in routine, a procedure to be followed etc. However, when it comes to challenging behaviours I don't really think that they're effective (at least not for DS). I have read quite a few to DS re aggression to siblings and animals but he either wanders off or just doesn't seem to connect it to his own behaviour - 'oh no, he shouldn't have done that..' I feel perhaps with your DS's Carrie screaming and my DS's hitting etc it is a lack of impulse control. The problem being I don't feel that I have any effective strategies to handle it. Typing that has really depressed me - I need to try and develop new strategies, I guess.

Carrie ds did a social story trial, I think 1000 kids from different schools all over the country took part (they had to have an autism diagnosis) I don’t think they ever did publish the results 🤣 I did the 2 day training with his 2 teaching assistants (he was in year 1, so was a few years ago now when he was in mainstream) I got a love2shop voucher for taking part, not that that was my incentive or anything! 🤣 I just got it through the post after it had finished, I think it was supposed to be for ds but I spent it in Iceland on food shopping 😂😂

I don’t use them, but I suppose they could be quite useful in scenarios. And all special schools love a social story!

Your success in using them all depends on the child and how much understanding they have. Because they have to understand the concept of it to take any of it on board.

They do quite a few social story books on Amazon, like stories with pictures.

We've had quite a lot of success with social stories because it separates the behaviour from being told off by an adult in a hierarchical relationship. It's more neutral and the best ones are where they explain the reasons for not doing a behaviour. It's best when we use them in a quiet moment when DS is regulated so he doesn't perceive that he's being told off.
We also use them for holidays, days out, new places etc. The postal museum in London did a great one recently that really prepared us for the visit.

@carriebradshawwithlessshoes as a long shot, have you tried saying to DS that he'll hurt his voice? When DS went through a screaming phase, saying that he was upsetting other people had no effect (in fact made it worse as it became a game to him) but finally what helped was saying, oh DS I hope your throat is OK, you'll hurt your throat doing that etc.

I’ve just had ds annual review….

I ended up getting quite shitty with ds teacher on more than one occasion, she left 20 minutes early for another appointment and I’m quite glad of the fact.

She’s known ds since January, she joined ds school the month before in the December, and the way she was speaking about him it’s as though he’s lived with her for the past 9.5 years, no issues as such with that other than it’s very annoying that when I’m giving an answer based on knowing ds like no other I don’t really appreciate her sticking her 2 pence in when she’s disagreeing with me! I understand not everyone has the same view on stuff, but literally everything I said she disagreed with 😳🤣 I’m ds mum, I’m certain i know him more in depth than somebody who has known him 5 months max.

And she kept talking over me which I find extremely irritating. (!!)

She said a couple of times when the ehcp co ordinator was asking a question, such as does ds still do x or y, she said ‘well he doesn’t do that in MY classroom’

After the second time she made that comment, about something, (in particular that she had said on the phone to me recently!) I said why do I always get phone calls and complaints then? If he doesn’t do it in YOUR classroom, why did you contact me about this exact thing?

Also The ehcp target ‘to safely access swimming on a weekly basis, to get to the hydro pool and back to the classroom safely and listening to teachers instructions on all occasions’ was apparently achieved, I reminded them of the fact he went head first in the pool fully clothed 2 months ago. Is that really safely, and listening to teachers instructions on all occasions, when 2 months ago he did that?

Also he had another target for going out into the community, (they are supposed to visit shops / the park / school trips to work on behaviour in the community at least twice a term) they said it had been achieved, i said he hasn’t left the school site ONCE during this academic year, not once. So how has that been achieved? He has not left the school at all?! How can he achieve that target when it hasn’t been done?

Then various other things have irritated me. I’ve had to spent 90 minutes picking apart everything and looking like that parent, because they weren’t doing the job properly.

She was trying to take credit for ds not wearing nappies, she’s been his teacher since January and he hasn’t worn nappies for 4 years 🤣 it was something about the incontinence team and I said they are discharging him at his next appointment, all being well, teacher said yes, well we do x y z and that’s helped ds into transitioning to not wearing nappies.

I said, how’s that work then when he hasn’t worn nappies since 2019? He came to your school not wearing them.

Do you understand why I get frustrated with them?

danni that sounds incredibly frustrating. I’m glad you weren’t scared to set them straight. All that aside, what was the positive progress that ds’ made this year?

carrie I’d echo what others have said. They can be good for kids that struggle to learn certain things in a more natural way. The language, pictures and repetition can better suit their type of learning. But like most things they don’t work for everyone or in all circumstances.

I’m not scared to set them straight open. Quite the opposite in fact.

Basically, the positives were, he had met some of the ehcp targets, if not fully, then partially. He’s no longer working on now and next, he follows a timetable on the wall and checks the clock on the class wall to check the time and check the timetable to see what’s what.

He’s playing with some children outdoors with the teacher setting the game and supervising the activity. So what time is it mr wolf, tig, those kind of social games.

She said he’s quite compliant, but only when she offers him something highly motivating as his reward, (bribes him then) they don’t like to call it a bribe though, 😳🙄 but it’s like calling an elephant a giraffe isn’t it, no wonder he wants paying for eating his tea, and wants a reward for using the toilet, rewarding for breathing etc, 🤣

It wasn’t overly positive, but they never discussed much, it was fairly rushed and not personal to ds, there was a lot of ‘couldn’t get the computer working and this wouldn’t save on the computer’ etc. Just time spent faffing.

Least it’s over for another year.

I know you’re not danni but I can see how some people would be.

it’s great he’s made progress. Are you happy with next years targets or have you not seen them yet?

I chased our AR paperwork last month. Still heard nothing and it was July.

They are ok, nothing over the top, I always find they keep the targets fairly simple and my thoughts are so they can say wow yes he’s met it and the school look like superstars when in actual fact it’s nothing out of what I would call reach anyway.

To continue to follow and understand rules, to be aware of boundaries and that sort of thing. Then to continue to do phonics each morning and take part in group lessons,

Be able to take turns when playing a game (this is the sort of thing I mean when they make them simple) he does that already playing his games, she said today he takes his turn when told when they are playing tig for instance, then she goes and sets a target for the next 12 months to be able to turn take.

I just think, least he goes to special school and he’s full time education and he’s making progress in some way or another so I just let them crack on with it all.

That must have been frustrating Danni

Re targets I sometimes think that DS's are too hard - some have been the same for a few years and still seem out of reach.

Over 2 weeks since DS's AR and still no response from case officer/SEND team about why she wasn't at the meeting. The quickest I ever received revised EHCP was 5 months and that was with weekly chasing. I believe that the legal deadline is 4 weeks for a decision and 6 for revised plan. I am going to camp out at County Hall if when they are late. I'm virtually certain that I will need to appeal to get a special school place so I need to do my best to ensure that they don't delay me.

dimples the one before this came out in a matter of weeks. Only one to be that fast.

I haven’t got a copy or seen a copy of ds ehcp from the last review a year ago, aren’t they shocking.