Concerns about racism

[PandoraSocks]

Hi there Mumsnet HQ

Many of us are concerned about the uptick of hatred, xenophobia and racism on the site over the past couple of weeks. Most of the bigotry is focused on asylum seekers. MNHQ will of course delete racism etc. if reported, but this has gone way beyond a few hateful posts.

Links below to three examples of threads which have descended into real nastiness.

Cheers.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/in_the_news/5385273-civil-unrest-whats-really-going-on?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5385914-do-you-believe-there-will-be-a-civil-war?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5386073-to-be-so-fed-up-amd-disheartened-with-all-the-xenophobia?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Vodka reminds me of nail polish remover.

People have said all Palestinians are terrorists! Did you read my post.
I’m Catholic as it happens.

Is that P.P. by any chance? Some people will do ANYTHING to defend a person they don’t want to believe can be fallible, although 2 things can be true at once. A person can be wrong about one thing and right about another.

But do you disagree accusations of bigotry, hysteria and a lack of evidence were used to shut down the trans debate for an awful long time until it reached an untenable position?

You took the words right out of my mouth. Perhaps we can recalibrate. A significant number of posters perceive there is an issue with posts on MN that are hostile to groups on the basis of race. There is also a high level of prejudiced vitriol across MN, this extends beyond immigration. This thread is an attempt to thoughtfully engage with MNHQ to try to work out ways of improving the situation. All suggestions are welcome.

Did they? I didn’t realise as you said ‘security threat’ which is quite a different thing. Of course saying ‘all Palestinians are terorrists’ is wrong and not something I would say.

Back to the actual subject at hand.

Here is a thread about food prices which is turning into immigrant bashing. It is just getting ridiculous.

I am not posting the thread to discuss it as I don't want to be deleted for a TAAT, but as an example to show MNHQ how insidious the bigotry is on MN.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5386353-has-food-prices-risen-again-this-month?page=3

Yes, this - there is also a high level of prejudiced vitriol across MN, this extends beyond immigration
I agree this is where the problem is and where the two issues do cross, as the arguments are exactly the same, it's like a bigotry playbook.
Define, dismiss when you do, paint all the group as predators/perverts/groomers/pretend it's only because you care about women and children who only seem to be cared about when it's to fit a narrative or an agenda
It's an interesting subject, and it's one that MN really needs to be aware of.

Ooohhhh god I’m sitting on my hands but yes I agree it’s really interesting

Actually, according to my SMs CMHT people can do exactly this. Having been present when said SM rang me and unleashed a variety of untrue and malicious accusations and observations at me, the nurse followed my call to her to ask why she didn't intervene with the assertion that everyone does indeed have the right to say whatever they like, and it's up to the recipient to decide whether to pursue it by legal channels.

Unfortunately I have no proof of my SM's viciousness as it's never been in writing. I do have a number of recorded calls which I offered to share with the CMHT to help inform their care plan for her, to illustrate her instability at the time. All they cared about was that I'd recorded her covertly which is in a legal grey area despite their assertion it is against the law full stop, and instructed me to stop doing it. Which I ignored, obviously.

So actually anybody can say anything they like....

This is just making up things so you can disagree with them. What’s the point?

To all those suggesting it is not left v right - racism is not but the desire to shut down debate is coming from the left. There is very much a "anyone who disagrees with me is a bigot" mentality on this thread and anyone who has followed the recent employment tribunal in Scotland has seen that quickly becomes this person is no longer entitled to fair process and we will remove their rights.

Part of the attempt to shut down debate is the refusal to provide information. Lets not collect accurate information on crimes and who commits them so we can deny there is a problem. The idea that we should then adjust crime statistics for things like age and income is ludicrous. If we are going to import young men from misogynist countries and fail to make any attempt to educate them then crimes against women are likely to increase. Trying to state it doesnt matter because men from less misogynist countries also commit crimes belittles legitimate concern and fuels racism.

Racism is fuelled by lack of debate, failure to respond to legitimate concerns and especially by those with privilege refusing to acknowledge the concerns of those that lack that privilege. I'm sure many people here would happily acknowledge the privilege of being white skinned while totally ignoring the privilege of being male or of having money.

If X/Y means walking the Camino with minimal drink and a lot of early nights, I guess. I’ve just been to Spain and that’s what I did.
I think the phrase you want is ‘a subset of Brits go to Spain and behave in X/Y way’

@MNHQ So this morning I reported a poster who was asked not to make a specific comment which many Irish people and people of Irish descent find offensive - namely that the term "Irish Potato Famine" is a term many Irish find offensive. Instead of accepting that fact, the poster doubled down TWICE, suggesting "Okay. "The French Foie Gras Shortage." Would you prefer that?" The deaths of a million people from starvation is obviously really funny. When it was explained again why it was offensive they fell over themselves to apologise as any decent person would do carried on with "Next time, I'll try "tuber famine."" You could not possibly get more deliberately offensive than that. Here is what MNHQ had to say about it:

We’ve reviewed the post, and while we appreciate that this is a sensitive historical topic, particularly for Irish people, we don’t believe the OP was mocking the tragedy of An Gorta Mór/The Great Hunger itself. Rather, they seem surprised by the strength of feeling about the terminology used, and their tone appears more defensive than deliberately offensive.

We understand why the phrasing and subsequent comments could have come across as flippant or dismissive, especially in a context where users have explained the impact of such language. We'll keep an eye on the thread, and if things escalate or become more personally inflammatory, we’ll step in.

More broadly, we allow some leeway around historical phrasing. especially where terms like “Irish Potato Famine” are still used in many mainstream sources.

Really? Someone who DELIBERATELY doubles down on an offensive comment wasn't mocking the deaths of one million people? And Marie Antionette was presumably advising on cook books when she said "let them eat cake"???

And suddenly the star goady posters are taking an "interest" in Irish history....

@MNHQ So now if something appears in a "mainstream source" that makes it correct? There's a hell of a lot that appears in the "mainstream sources" that isn't correct. And if people do not speak up then that continues to be the case. People are speaking up and you aren't listening. Change happens because people listen. I recognise that is a rapidly diminishing return on this site, but if the moderators aren't listening, then I think we have our answer. MNHQ supports racism and offense provided it skirts within the lines of not getting you in a court of law, and you don't give a shit how many people it harms or hurts provided the money continues to roll in.

I haven’t made things up. I can’t prove it as the statements were correctly deleted. If you read the thread about treating Palestinian children it will be abundantly clear from people’s responses where those comments were.

It isn’t. Here’s the thread if you want proof. I suggest you read it.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5384924-300-children-from-gaza-to-be-brought-to-the-uk-for-free-specialist-nhs-care?page=1

Marie Antoinette probably didnt say it https://www.historyadventures.co/the-real-story-behind-let-them-eat-cake/

but it was about an elite perceived to be totally out of touch.

You can’t expect them to police everything that personally upsets you, calling the Irish potatoe famine the Irish potatoe famine doesn’t seem unreasonable.

If you are with us here in 2025 you will understand why many Irish people object.

My great, great grandparents were immigrants who fled that famine. I find it very offensive. And I find your attempts to justify it even more offensive.

They may object to it, they don’t have the right to police using its correct name because they’ve decided they are offended. Seriously, grow up.

You’ll have to be offended then. It’s not your human right not to be offended.

I would however assume they were extremely ignorant and not worth debating.

Have you read the thread that you accused a pp of making up yet @GentleFawn?

Maybe look into why calling it "the Irish potatoe (sic) famine" is, apart from being offensive to many Irish people, historically inaccurate.

That’s also fine. See how easy that was when we don’t act like 5 year olds.