Ablesim on mumsnet

[Readyfreddo]

Hi. I’m really interested in whether mumsnet has an interest in and strategy for combatting the collective ableism on this site, particularly (but by no means exclusively) directed and children with and parents of kids with disabilities and additional needs.

As a parenting site I’m sure you’re aware of the massive challenges associated with raising a child with disabilities, and I’m curious whether you’d let threads about any other minority, protected group run as unchecked as you do where the discussion is around children with disabilities.

There’s a thread currently running about an autistic 3 year old queue jumping. I’d encourage the site team to read it for many examples of how problematic these discussions very often are. (In summary - the view seems to be that the three year old is probably faking it and if he isn’t why on earth is he out of the house without proper paperwork)

Also very interested in this having seen that thread. The married to someone with ASC threads are also deeply upsetting.

every now and again there seems to be a few threads like that. there are 2 at the moment.
on another thread in the RF topic, posts about how someone must be nd as they behave badly.

Combine the examples above with those about sickness benefits and the deserving disabled.

Ableism is alive and present in society and on Mumsnet.

Ableism has been alive and well on MN for years, sadly.

I completely agree @TheFairyCaravan and @Zampa. MumsnetHQ, do you have an action plan / strategy around it? As pointed out, this isn’t a new issue.

OP I think if you want to raise something with Mumsnet you probably need to email them. They won't read every thread.

I've reported your op so they see it. I agree with you

I’ve not seen the specific thread that you are referring to, but have seen several other threads recently that absolutely illustrate your point about collective ableism, directed towards children with additional needs.

I haven’t read the thread you’re referring to but I did see it and thought it had the potential to go the way you’ve described.

I know lots of mumsnetters, and now ex mumsnetters, who are disappointed in mumsnets attitude and lack of moderation to some threads/posts about ND. The amount of threads that are goady about ND, using very negative, disbelieving language, that attract the same posters over and over with their goady comments and are left to stand is shocking. I’ve seen parents on other sites and in autism groups say that they no longer bother to report those posts here due to lack of action from mumsnet, or who have left mumsnet because of it. The feeling is very much that mumsnet has one of many ND trolls, especially as these threads seem to come in gluts. You see one thread and then there are 5 within a few days. The dog whistle attracts the like minded posters who perhaps wouldn’t make a thread about it themselves, but happily join in.

I’ve been on mumsnet for many years on and off, I’ve reported comments saying ‘everyone is a little bit autistic’ and saying ‘labels are handed out like sweets’, amongst others, mostly be told that things are subjective and they like to give the benefit of the doubt.

It’s doesn’t feel like mumsnet is consistent on the issue, or is a supportive place for ND people or parents of ND kids, which is a shame. Sometimes I feel able to challenge posters, other times I avoid the threads.

I presume the issue was the mum pushing in?

Thanks @stuffyoursandbox. @Bringbackthebeaver I know but I hope they read threads on site stuff and I’d love to be able to show this isn’t just one person who has an issue with this.

The ablism against communication differences particularly selective/situational mutism is especially dreadful.

Ableism is rife on MN. Always has been and likely, given the way MNHQ constantly downplay/fail to deal with it, always will be.

I go through phases of reporting ableism, but more often than not, nothing is done and the posts remain.

In my experience, as someone with multiple disabilities as defined under the EA2010, is that disability is seen as 'less than' some of the other EA protected characteristics. It's certainly the case on MN.

Have you reported all the posts you take issue with? I mind they are good at responding to reports

There was a thread the other day where the OP asked why so many people are now are autistic or have adhd, saying we’re labelling too many kids, it’s just being quirky and weird, not autism or ADHD. Total goady arse.

She said she ticked many of the boxes but her mum didn’t want her labelled as a kid and now she’s a fully functioning adult. Advanced search revealed she had said on another thread that she had ADHD, where she was annoyed at ‘all these people blaming bad behaviour on ND’. She was clearly not a genuine poster and was saying anything she had to to be anti ND, but mumsnet left the thread to stand despite many people reporting it. When they did delete it they didn’t mention the OP being a goady arse or a troll with inconsistent posting history, they just that they had had many reports and they don’t feel the thread would improve so they’re deleting.

I’m more interested in their response to the systemic issue than individual posts

Not when it comes to ableist and goady ND posts unfortunately.

Completely agree with you OP. The amount of ableism on here is shocking, particularly towards children with disabilities.

One incident in particular still makes me feel so sad, when I was called selfish for not aborting my child who has Down's syndrome.

Please mumsnet, do something about this ableism as I'm sure you would for any other protected characteristic.

Oh right. Sorry ignore me then.

Totally with the points raised. Too many people on MN imply that ASD is used as a label to explain away poor behaviour and poor parenting. Please @mumsnet can we do something about this....

I reported one in a thread about a son's "rude" girlfriend, who turned out to be rude because she was barely able to speak to the mum but could speak to her friends and boyfriend. This is a classic presentation of low profile selective mutism, a communication disorder, about which I am very knowledgeable, lecture, run training etc. However whether or not the poster's son's girlfriend had selective mutism (SM), another poster came on to say her grand daughter does have it and people misunderstanding it makes her sad for her granddaughter's future. A well known controversialist poster who probably considers herself "no nonsense, call a spade a spade" quoted this post with a comment about how these queer cold fish types destroy families.

I reported it; Mumsnet let it stand on (in my view) spurious grounds.

I do report some posts, and many are deleted, but I find that there are two things that also happen.

One is they leave it up because it's being robustly dealt with and it's a learning opportunity.

The other is they don't agree with me that it's ableism. I think its because an individual post saying something might not seem much, but when there is thread after thread, or multiple posts through out a thread, taken as a whole, it's not a great place to be. So reporting one post probably doesn't capture it.

If you Google disability microagressions some of the examples are things that are often thread titles or things people say in responses.

There are a lot of issues with this site - I agree about ableism and also the awful transphobia that is rife on the feminism threads, much of which goes unchallenged. I also see quite a lot of ageism, fatphobia, sexism, homophobia etc on here.

All these things come out of the woodwork when people are able to post anonymously on forums. The problem is that anonymity is also one of the advantages of mumsnet and why people can get support here with things like domestic violence and abuse - one of the big strengths of the site.

There are issues but I am unsure what mumsnet can do about it or if they care... I would be interested to see their response if they do read this thread.

I find the ASD threads genuinely gobsmacking. Luckily, I think people are kinder in real life.

My takeaway points from the thread in question are:

1- We must try to make our ASD children as normal as possible rather than making allowances for them.

2- If our children require allowances others deem unacceptable (other people are allowed to decide what constitutes an acceptable allowance from one glance at a child) they shouldn’t be in that space at all.

3- As parents, we have to be on top form at all times and displaying award winning disability parenting skills (again, what that constitutes can be decided by others at a glance) despite surviving on 10 minutes sleep and some coffee fumes.

4- We must be open to constant criticism and await clueless people pointing out ‘learning opportunities’ for us and our DC. It’s for our own good.

I don’t necessarily want the shitty posts to be deleted because I’d rather know what people actually think than be unaware. It does make me angry and sad in equal measure though.

(In summary - the view seems to be that the three year old is probably faking it and if he isn’t why on earth is he out of the house without proper paperwork)

That's a completely inaccurate summary of that thread, which really undermines your post.