Ablesim on mumsnet

[Readyfreddo]

Hi. I’m really interested in whether mumsnet has an interest in and strategy for combatting the collective ableism on this site, particularly (but by no means exclusively) directed and children with and parents of kids with disabilities and additional needs.

As a parenting site I’m sure you’re aware of the massive challenges associated with raising a child with disabilities, and I’m curious whether you’d let threads about any other minority, protected group run as unchecked as you do where the discussion is around children with disabilities.

There’s a thread currently running about an autistic 3 year old queue jumping. I’d encourage the site team to read it for many examples of how problematic these discussions very often are. (In summary - the view seems to be that the three year old is probably faking it and if he isn’t why on earth is he out of the house without proper paperwork)

We must try to make our ASD children as normal as possible rather than making allowances for them.

But they aren't "normal" if you treat a person with autism the same as someone without it that's unfair.

I personally want people to understand I have difficulties and may need extra time, more detailed explanation, quiet etc

Completely support you OP, the ableism on this site is a disgrace.

Another one consistently gobsmacked by the unmoderated ableism on this site, usually directed towards ND children.

Yes it was a bit hyperbolical but I don’t think it was that much of a stretch - there are a significant number of posts saying that the mother might be lying about her son being disabled, and if she’s not she should be able to prove it.

@MangosteenSoda ’s summary is better. The wider point still clearly stands.

I want to know if they care.

I don’t agree there’s not much they can do about it. They have a pretty robust approach to troll hunting. They flag when posters are vulnerable and there’s a pile on. They raise awareness of all sorts of things on the site. They have generic “hello we’re just popping in to remind people…” posts on all sorts of issues.

There’s a lot of Ableism, transphobia, classism and misandry on Mumsnet. Basically- if you’re not a middle aged mum earning a decent wage, with NT children, you’re not welcome.

Classism and attacking people on benefits for whatever reason are rife, as well as ableism. There are often comments attacking carers of disabled relatives, too.

There's also a tendency to suggest any child who doesn't fit the Mumsnet ideal of sporty, extrovert, doing "activities" and "hobbies" out of school, and instead is shy and upset by boisterous, noisy or aggressive children must be neurodivergent, which is not helping anyone.

How do you define ableism please OP? Some of the threads mentioned above are safe spaces for people struggling and I'm not sure how denying them those spaces is kind or helpful so I'd like to understand exactly how ableism is defined.

I agree. They can deal with ableism effectively if they choose to.

Yeah that thread was depressing, not least because her child had only been waiting 'a few minutes'. As I said on the thread if they'd been stood there an hour I could understand the reluctance but if you've been there a few minutes wouldn't you happily give someone the benefit of the doubt?

The attitude on here is - 'there are way too many people with ASD and ADHD and most are probably faking it and they're getting all sorts of advantages that my kids aren't and costing the tax payer a lot of money'.

Goodness if they had any idea what ND kids and their parents go through they'd thank their lucky stars. Mine generally copes very well - but he hasn't had a friend for 6 years now, he hasn't seen anyone outside of school in that time and spends all his break times and lunch times alone - and for someone with ASD I consider him to be coping well because secondary school is brutal when you're ND. But he's got through without self harm, mental breakdown or school refusal so I'll take that.

I think it is important to keep threads up that are ableist though so people can point it out and give another point of view. Obviously there has to be limits but I think the discussion is important if you want to try to change views.

The poster you quote from was I believe being ironic.

No one would be allowed any opinions if every supposed ableist transphonbic, racist, sexist or ageist post was deleted.

People are very quick to use these terms, when in many cases the opinions aren't the labelled word.

See the current bi thread for an example.

The increase in diagnoses of ND mean that people will experience more and more issues. In mixed classes of 32 there are now usually at least 7-8 children with some sort of diagnosis ime. I wouldn't be waving them all to the front of the queue.

Well yes, I would say it was more the sense of entitlement about queue jumping than anything else.

Completely agree, that thread is depressing.

Parents of children who are ND have it hard enough already without having to listen to quite frankly ignorant and uneducated people spouting absolute crap!

It isn’t acceptable whatsoever.

Yep, I was blasted years ago for not going out to work full time, I was a single parent with a child with Down Syndrome and autism and claiming carers allowance and other associated benefits, you’d have thought I was the scum of the earth, apparently I should drive a daily 100 mile round trip to the nearest special needs child minder so I could work.

I don’t agree. I’m certainly not quick to label things as racism, ableism etc. I’ve commented on the bisexual thread to say that preferences are not phobia.

No one would be allowed any opinions if every supposed ableist transphonbic, racist, sexist or ageist post was deleted.

This sounds very much like my FIL who said ‘you can’t say anything nowadays’ when he said something racist
snf was challenged on it.

@anythinginapinch

Ah that paragraph jumped out at me. I only read point one out of the whole post 😮

I think it is important to keep threads up that are ableist though so people can point it out and give another point of view. Obviously there has to be limits but I think the discussion is important if you want to try to change views.

I agree with this to a point, if MN supports posters in pointing it out and if there’s a wider strategy in place which amounts to more than “parents of kids with disabilities/ND kids can provide an informed, alternative view to combat the bile”.

I’m not convinced that for other minority groups (except trans) there would be the same strategy.

It has.

Agree. I know people who have been deleted for pointing it out, which confused me as I’ve been told by mumsnet that they encourage posters to challenge differing views if they leave posts up. The moderation is inconsistent and it’s a problem.

The thread is about someone quite brazenly trying to queue jump.

It was a huge stretch and so is your use of the word "clearly." You haven't made your point well and, as a disabled person, I disagree with your viewpoint.

It’s a one sentence summary of a thread with hundreds of posts. The point isn’t complicated; there are repeatedly threads on mumsnet which display, in my opinion, views about children who are disabled and/or ND which are pretty awful. I don’t believe that’s a unique view and I’m interested to know what MN’s stance on this is.

I think the argument there is not that the child is faking it, but the mum is, to get an advantage.

Edited to say I am referring to OP's op about the queue jumping thread.

Could someone please answer my question above and define ableism? Thank you.