Ablesim on mumsnet

[Readyfreddo]

Hi. I’m really interested in whether mumsnet has an interest in and strategy for combatting the collective ableism on this site, particularly (but by no means exclusively) directed and children with and parents of kids with disabilities and additional needs.

As a parenting site I’m sure you’re aware of the massive challenges associated with raising a child with disabilities, and I’m curious whether you’d let threads about any other minority, protected group run as unchecked as you do where the discussion is around children with disabilities.

There’s a thread currently running about an autistic 3 year old queue jumping. I’d encourage the site team to read it for many examples of how problematic these discussions very often are. (In summary - the view seems to be that the three year old is probably faking it and if he isn’t why on earth is he out of the house without proper paperwork)

No it doesn’t. Autistic people are varied in presentation and often mask a lot.

It is when it is very clear she is lying and trying it on.

Disclosure: I was diagnosed with ASD 3 years ago as an older adult. I have a child with moderate ASD. Nothing pisses me off more than CFers and chancers LYING about having this. It is hard enough for us to be taken seriously as it is, without dealing with lying parents using us as an excuse to get out of lining up. As someone with ASD, guess what? It's pretty obvious when someone is lying about this.

We didn't come down in the last shower.

It makes me so livid. And then you have well-meaning but naive people egging on these CF chancers, and making my and our lives harder!

When does a ‘judgement’ go against the equalities and disabilities act though?

It used to be policed much more stringently in the past.

The recent thread about having to leave the cinema to use the loo was a real eye opener for me.
And let's not forget how anyone who wishes to discuss bowel problems is instantly branded a poo troll.
Can't work out if some posters here are ableist or just plain dumb.

Yes, I am ASD myself and so is my child, and I am so fucking tired of everyone using my and my DD's condition as an excuse! That is what is wrong with me!!

Ah I see. It's fine for you to not believe me. But it's not fine for us to not believe parents who claim their child is autistic. You might want to examine your own hypocrisy there. Btw, I can PM you my doctor's letter regarding my diagnosis, if you wish? I won't do my DDs as that's her private business but I consent to you seeing my letters.

Nope, never worked in a school.

According to this thread it's ableist to say anybody lies about having ASD.

You’ve tied yourself in quite a knot there 😂

Just what knot is that?

Oh, and I also typed out another reply but it got lost because your post was deleted and my reply wouldn't go through.

If you think I am posting under other names, please ask MN to check to see if I have posted under any other names in this thread or any other thread about autism. Please do. And report back. 😂

Yes, Dozerasauras was caught out by their own standards.

Are you alright?

You're the one making ableist comments.

This is very true.
Anyone with autism will know this.

Well you tell me, when has it on here? The examples given on this thread don’t seem to me to meet that threshold ( not that I am a lawyer).

Discussing situations or ideas is what this site is about. And there will always be different ideas of what constitutes an ‘ist’ or phobia.

For example some people have strong views that racism has to include a power element, so white people cannot be victims of racism. Other people have strong views that any race can experience racism and its rather racist against white peoples to say they can’t experience it. Under the UK equality act, all races are protected so white people can experience racism under the law ( and cases to the effect have been successfully prosecuted). So does this mean the MN should delete all posts from black MNers, and others, arguing that only people of colour can experience racism, because this view, or ‘judgement’ is counter to the law and hence discriminatory against white peoples?

My view is strongly that such posts should never be deleted, but your position would seem to mean they should be?

I can’t remember, it was years ago. I don’t have any examples.

Stuff was just jumped on sooner. Some threads are unpleasant places now.

I see we're still waiting for MN to respond to this thread.

@Niceplaces I’m not a lawyer either, and nor do I work in tech policy or moderation ethics or whatever this would fall under. I’m assuming MN has people who are experts in this stuff and have thought it through. All I’m asking for is to understand whether they think it’s a problem and if so do they have any kind of strategy or plan.

They might not agree or recognise that they host hateful content. They might well say that to them, free speech and robust debate is more important than challenging people who have very obnoxious views about disabled children and their parents.

Personally, for a parenting website, I think that’s an odd take. However, from the perspective of a parent of a child with disabilities it wouldn’t be a surprising one.

The mother should have asked the park for these accommodations though. As i’ve said above, parks like Legoland have specific passes for this. It’s not just a case of it being acceptable to merrily queue jump in the casual way detailed.

I personally haven’t seen evidence of law breaking being allowed to stand and suspect that the lack of cases against MN in 15 years is because this hasn’t happened.

I also very strongly believe that MN has provided a really useful function in raising a lot of awareness of disabilities and how they affect people. I think that’s a really good thing. This site is very possibly more effective at this than the disability charities simply because MN reaches people who would not engage in an awareness raising campaign, and through threads people are exposed to the real detail of the impact of disability on peoples and families lives. I also think the fact that people are able to discuss these issues, including views I find appalling, is a factor in raising awareness amongst people who otherwise would not be exposed to this or to counter opinions.

Well to be fair l tried to raise a case with the Equalities Commission.

But they don’t police internet forums. So it’s quite hard to raise a case. Who would you suggest it was raised with?

There is always challenge. It comes from other posters. That’s the value of this site. I personally think that is much more powerful that deleting everything.

If you go on Jewish Mumsnetters you’ll see some frankly disgusting posts which I would regard as coming from anti-Semitic beliefs. You’ll sometimes see Jewish posters say they thought of reporting them but decided not to as they think it’s important that others are able to see the views that are out there.

There is always a line and of course there will always be posts so over the line they have to go. And MN does delete those.

As I said before, I do think they get the balance about right and I think the existence of this site does much good for disability awareness, as well as awareness of a whole host of other issues.

I am not really sure why you are asking me this being as my posts make clear I see things very differently from you 🤷‍♀️