MN needs a closer watch of FWR

[BodegaSushi]

There is a concerning growth of posts with racist undertones cropping up on these boards, all under the guise of being proudly 'anti-woke'.

Apparently diversity is 'woke' and worthy of derision.

This is the thread I'm referring to here.

Disney went woke now they're going broke www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4836570-disney-went-woke-now-theyre-going-broke

Mumsnet needs to looks at why that board draws such types of posts, and why posters feel so comfortable openly airing their racism.

I personally loved the doubling down of a poster that couldn’t be arsed to provide evidence to support their bizarre accusation (made by them and another poster) that a woman publishing a concern absolutely encouraged death threats and bomb threats. Because they published their concern to the internet.

The actual evidence was very easy to find and shows that yet again the ridiculous accusations of feminists aligning with far right is based on fucked up emotional manipulation and nothing else. It is people who themselves seem to not be able to accept that sometimes people will hold similar objectives based on differences motivations. Some people seem very scared that might inadvertently hold an opinion that a person they find abhorrent holds too. Because they cannot conceive that that could ever happen, it would obviously make them aligned with someone’s abhorrent political views.

Sorry for all the typos.

Hi all. I've just posted to FWR and the post was immediately 'hidden until Mumsnet can have a look at it'. As far as I'm concerned it was innocuous. Hoping this is just some automatic censorship rather than personal!

It's back up to view now@NotTerfNorCis

We are not vague, we are just not doing all the work. But you keep being obtuse.

Ah great, thanks. Bit of a worrying moment!

On the subject of this thread - conservatives do oppose genderism, from a different angle (they believe in gender stereotypes). It's inevitable that some are going to make their way to FWR. But they're definitely in the minority.

We just have to accept that label being applied without discussion, without examples because people said so

to be fair, it has been shown to work as a tactic elsewhere on the internet and even in real life.

I can't see why it was hidden either it's a fairly innocuous post!

Plus even if we were all paid up members of the conservative party im not sure what that has got to do with the price of fish.

Then spart it must be fucking annoying when women won’t accept that tactic being used to berate them.

Mustn't it!

This is a very deliberate minimisation of the genuine impact that alignments and political alliances can have, and how they can over time change and even pervert the original grounds of the alliance.

I don't believe for a second, actually, that most feminists would align with the types of ideas we are talking about here, in the name of "as long as they are also anti trans".

I think it is a very deliberate obfuscation by people who are genuinely bigoted, but can now hide behind the fact that "feminism apparently supports them"

In other words, I believe the proportion of genuinely transphobic people masquerade under the guise of feminism is much higher than the proportion of feminists who comfortably support extremely conservative, regressive views.

masquerading*

Nobody's asking to be educated, they're asking for evidence to back up the nasty smears that are being made about FWR posters.

Reni Eddo-Lodge doesn't really cut it as an adequate response.

I nicked this picture from Mumsnet somewhere, so thanks to whoever originally posted it, but I found it very helpful to explain where we all have areas/concerns in common, and where we may disagree.

And some of us can't be at all buggered with the social justice stuff or who aligns with who or what political party thinks what and who's not talking to who because impurity.

Some of us just want women not to be excluded and to lose equality of access or identity or equality of rights in the process of meeting the needs and wishes of male people with TQ+ identities. That's it. That's all. Perfectly simple.

And there is that twist again.

Tell us very clearly, which feminists do you see “comfortably support extremely conservative, regressive views.”

And what you mean in detail in this statement

”I don't believe for a second, actually, that most feminists would align with the types of ideas we are talking about here, in the name of "as long as they are also anti trans".”

What types of “ideas” are you taking about?

We KNOW that feminists don’t align with groups ‘as long as they are anti-trans’! You are the one telling us that they are though.

“I think it is a very deliberate obfuscation by people who are genuinely bigoted, but can now hide behind the fact that "feminism apparently supports them"”

What is a ‘very deliberate obfuscation’? Please be very clear and precise here. Are you calling me ‘bigoted’ because you seem to be discussing my post here.

You can disagree with me, it is no issue for me. However, I will continue to point out your clear fear of ever seeming to support something that someone with abhorrent political views support. I know myself well enough that I can make those distinctions consistently over time. I am sure many feminists in the UK can say the same thing. In fact, many of they have done just that.

I will continue to repeat this, just because another group has similar objectives to feminists but from different motivations, doesn’t mean feminists should stop campaigning for the needs of women and children, of all female people regardless of their gender and regardless of whether they even believe they need those sexed based rights.

Alignment.

Fuck that shit.

I just want men to get back in their already mile wide fucking lane. And stop dishing out dangerous shit to kids. Its not difficult.

That's the problem with privilege, you think everyone owes you an explanation and you don't have to do any of the work. You can ask for evidence until the cows come home - I and other ethnic people don't owe you anything. We will engage on specifics and have a lively debate with people who have taken the time to meet us half way but it is not our job to educate you on racism, women and white feminism. You are the audience that Reni is talking about so its hardly surprising that the article doesn't cut it as adequate for you. You do you treacle, ignorance is bliss.

Examples of racism on FWR were given, starting with the two given by the OP.
All have been summarily rejected with extreme prejudice and much mockery.

Is it any wonder we have realised there is no point to present further examples to willfully blind amnesiacs a few of whom are even now croaking ‘no examples were given’- literally whitewashing away the contributions of not only the OP but Black and ethnic posters to this thread as if it never happened.

This is exactly it and the arrogance and derisiveness comes solely from the fact that there is a group of them.

It happens all the time on FWR. Any poster who calls out anything negative as all is met with "examples pleeeease?". Like, it's the whole thing, the very point is that you don't consider it offensive, so what's the point in pointing out examples when you 100% know that even the worst, most blatant examples are dismissed, with no explanation at all.

But the overriding tone of all of these requests to women is that we should put the comfort of males ABOVE our own comfort dignity and safety.

Why? Why do trans women think that women should have to give up so much to accommodate them?

Most of us would be entirely behind third spaces but women have spent our entire lives dealing with discrimination based on the perception of our reproductive capacities why should we have to move over (yet again) to accommodate males, especially where all of the evidence indicates it puts us at risk? To be clear that risk is not because transwomen are trans but because they are male.

And you have to notice the pattern in this determined ignoring of facts, evidence and explanations to go on re stating as if they didn't exist. It's the same as the stating of, for example, some women have penises.

This entire ideology relies on dismissing unwanted bits of reality and trying to force everyone else into compliance against their own perceptions.

With a whole lot of anger when anyone says 'no'.

That privilege and vanity for you.

My post was to explain why FWR posters have concerns over attempts in this thread (and elsewhere) to apparently close down FWR. @Socrateswasrightaboutvoting can you understand where those concerns come from?

Evidence is very important. Both for confirmation of accusations being made, as well as facilitating learning.

I am interested in learning from the evidence. In fact, I do learn on these boards every day from a variety of perspectives.

However, when given an example, I go and review the evidence for myself. In that one particular example, there was no confirmation of racism ie no evidence of that poster being confronted with angry responses.

This is not to deny racism exists (!) or to deny that racist views are expressed on FWR. But it would be helpful to have other examples or to have someone explain concerns with particular topics or issues, I would welcome those insights. So far though, I’m seeing many generic accusations, which are both difficult to discuss and hard to learn from.

Anyone ever going to post the link to the Telegraph forum gang? So that we can't dismiss it?