MN needs a closer watch of FWR

[BodegaSushi]

There is a concerning growth of posts with racist undertones cropping up on these boards, all under the guise of being proudly 'anti-woke'.

Apparently diversity is 'woke' and worthy of derision.

This is the thread I'm referring to here.

Disney went woke now they're going broke www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4836570-disney-went-woke-now-theyre-going-broke

Mumsnet needs to looks at why that board draws such types of posts, and why posters feel so comfortable openly airing their racism.

It depends on the individual, but generally it can lead to increased life satisfaction.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/24/majority-trans-adults-happier-transitioning-survey

If there's no binary, then "trans" doesn't mean people wanting to be the opposite sex.
And if there's no traits that match a sex, trans doesn't mean having traits that don't match your sex.

So what exactly is trans, then, @suggestionsplease1 ? I do know people with gender dysphoria that want to be seen as the opposite sex, so I'm not sure that "there's no binary" is accurate.

I'm happy for each individual to tell me what it means to them personally.

But when you use the word, what do you mean by it?

What is the solution for XX women who want be safe from the XY people who want to expose themselves to non-consenting females? The ones who used to be flashers?

What is the solution for XX women who want to be safe from XY people who want to ogle non-consenting females in a state of undress? The ones who used to be peeping toms?

What is the solution for XX women who don't want to have to share loos with XY people who fetishise urination?

What is the solution for religious XX women?

Good questions. I suspect they'll be met with a shrug.

Hmm "overall rates of life satisfaction among trans adults were lower than the general population" though according to that article @suggestionsplease1

Another study that cannot be accessed.

Do you have the access to copy and paste it here? No?

If I remember reading about this study, the methodology was not strong. They pulled information from municipalities that had admitted to not being clear about the laws and how males would be treated under the laws. So, that is not a good place to start.

Also, it is not clear whether any crimes that were committed were recorded with the correct sex of the criminal. Can you confirm whether these municipalities recorded correct sex or not?

Plus, we also know that women rarely report crimes against them. I would find this study is relying on women reporting incidents which we know that women don't necessarily report. They just never go back.

How many women and girls do you consider acceptable collateral for males to access female single sex spaces Suggestions?

1? 2? 5? 100?

Were the two girls and multiple women who were involved in two of the WiSpa incidents acceptable collateral damage?

Was Dolatowski's victim acceptable collateral damage? How about the women's refuge where Dolatowski lied to get access? They also acceptable collateral damage?

Can you provide an answer to how many you, personally, consider to be acceptable collateral damage please?

Of course, if you'd experienced discrimination your entire life your life satisfaction would be lower, wouldn't it? Maybe read the article more carefully?

We're back to people expecting the impossible again. Not everyone believes that males can be considered "women".

So again, you can agree with many feminists on FWR, but you cannot agree with how they speak. That is very clear.

And apparently, it is up to women to find the solution for male people who wish to not use the male single sex spaces? You expect feminists to provide 'productive' solutions. And yet, feminists have recommended 'productive' solutions for years and been rejected... what more do you expect feminists to do?

I did read it and that's a direct quote from it @suggestionsplease1

Well maybe I'll quote the whole sentence for you then:

"While overall rates of life satisfaction among trans adults were lower than the general population, many survey participants said that was largely due to discrimination facing trans people."

Third spaces.
So mens, women, plus 'available for all'.
Everyone happy, right?

If Stonewall campaigned for that I think the whole of FWR would be behind them.

Apparently not, because some TW want to use the womens as validation.

The way women do, you mean? The way to fight against life long discrimination is to challenge and change the system, not to change your healthy body.

This ^^

It was the growing realisation of the negative impact close to home and reading JKR’s essay (previously had no idea that TW were primarily biologically intact and assumed all TW=post surgery) that opened my eyes. Then I started to pay attention and began to see the impact on sports, started talking to friends involved in refuge centres, read about Edinburgh rape relief centre, culminating with incredulousness at a double convicted rapist being housed in a female prison estate. Once eyes are opened, can’t be closed again.

It’s not on women. It’s all on the activist TRAs insisting that there should no place that TW can’t go and the +++ increase in young vulnerable people being put on a medicalised pathway that is resulting in more vocalised concerns.

Have we had a link to the Telegraph thing yet? Or to any of the racisms?

I'm sincerely asking if you could do me the courtesy of answering my question, @suggestionsplease1 .
In the spirit of understanding a vulnerable group.

just momentarily bringing this thread back on topic:

Opening post

BodegaSushi · 30/06/2023 12:59

There is a concerning growth of posts with racist undertones cropping up on these boards, .....

..... Mumsnet needs to looks at why that board draws such types of posts, and why posters feel so comfortable openly airing their racism.

This thread had a racist comment made in the early hours of this morning. The post has now been deleted by mnhq. It wasn't a regular from the FWR boards either before anyone asks.

So anyone want to start a thread on why a thread in site stuff draws such a post and why the poster felt so comfortable airing their racism? Or is it just FWR that deserves a kicking?

I can think of no tactic, no matter how low they go, that hasn't been tried at one time or another for the removal of FWR.

I vaguely remember the crowing on Twitter etc when the Gender Critical sub was removed from Reddit, along with cries to the tune of 'we're coming for you next ...'

I'm with @Ereshkigalangcleg. The motives for starting this thread are very likely dubious. The title itself's a dead giveaway, for starters.

Again, this is a complete misapprehension of why individuals consider a transitioning process.

You said in an earlier post that you are older. One of my friends who is 'read' as an older butch lesbian but doesn't tend to talk about her sexuality or identity with others much would very happily have transitioned if this had been possible for her a few decades ago.

She has lived a life unhappily in the body that she has, and this has precluded her from having intimate romantic relationships that she would have loved to had because she can not relate sexually in the slightest to the body that she has. She has missed out on a massive part of life (she would not transition now due to health concerns she already has and her age, but looks wistfully on those who are able to do so.)

She's an incredibly smart person (and is thankful that she has a gender neutral name and Dr as a prefix I'm using 'she' as that's what her close friends have always done to refer to her.) Her experience has been genuinely and consistently felt for decades.

We would run out of words on the page! The word 'trans' is a shortcut to an incredibly complex concept that has differing meanings to differing people and it broadly, but not definitively, refers to someone who has a strong sense that their gender does not fit with the sex that they were recognised to have at birth.

Have we had a link to the Telegraph thing yet?

The Telegraph posters go to a different school.

So which genders "fit" female? If you feel your gender is "man" or "masculine", does that fit with female?
I thought earlier you said you didn't believe that traits about a person could necessarily match a sex, but I must have misunderstood.

So they're not actually happier @suggestionsplease1

Would a person who does not believe they have a gender identity, but recognises that there would probably be benefits to their life if their body was the opposite sex, be trans?