MN needs a closer watch of FWR

[BodegaSushi]

There is a concerning growth of posts with racist undertones cropping up on these boards, all under the guise of being proudly 'anti-woke'.

Apparently diversity is 'woke' and worthy of derision.

This is the thread I'm referring to here.

Disney went woke now they're going broke www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4836570-disney-went-woke-now-theyre-going-broke

Mumsnet needs to looks at why that board draws such types of posts, and why posters feel so comfortable openly airing their racism.

I am genuinely sad to hear that about your friend. It can't be easy to live in a body that causes you stress and discomfort. I don't know if she ever had counselling to help her resolve her issues, but either way it's a shame she hasn't been able to reconcile things within herself.

I honestly don't know what the answer is when people are so unhappy, but surely the medication and surgery route surely shouldn't be the first step as it is seeming it be for many now.

It took me a long time to learn to live/love with the body I had and not the one I wish I had. But I was lucky in that I did reconcile that issue in my own head and learnt to live with my female body.I

I hope you're friend manages to find some sort of peace and happiness.

Yes, that's right, because of discrimination that they face they are not, at a group demographic level, happier than non-trans people who do not experience discrimination in the same way.

They are, in general, happier that they were prior to transition.

It's kind of meaningless then

That influx from the Telegraph has not been explained at all.

I don't believe it's right that a man can identify as a woman and steal sporting places. This is a direct infringement on the needs of women.

Where is the acknowledgement of this from the other side? Or is sporting fairness transphobic?

Are they ? Has that been proven ?

I believe it was true in the distant past ( when transition was very rare ) but I am less convinced that more recent transitioners are happier especially in the medium and long term

If I recall the data collection that would have helped was pretty poor with too many going missing

And I am damn sure that there hasn't been any efforts to identify a control group - those women who grew up without an option to transition but who can easily see that they would have jumped at the option as a teenager or younger child

Any volunteering on just how many women and girls you consider 'acceptable collateral' suggestions?

How many women and girls have to suffer harm, or self exclude for this to become an issue that you will acknowledge? Or will this just be ignored like it has in the past?

I think regular posters will be fully aware how many times it is ignored by now though.

You can have sympathy without accepting someone's solution

Yes it is tricky that TW can't (fairly) compete in female sports and don't want to compete in male sports , but the "don't want" is key - they have that option available and they reject it , and they reject also a trans category.

( aside: how many female players would actually be happy to compete against men if the physical differences didn't exist ? I suspect most - yet another difference between women and TW)

The conversation can be had but if one of both sides are asserting that the needs of the other side doesn't matter, it will obviously cause conflict and no solution.

The difference is, men already had access to all the facilities. Saying they are women then gives them automatic access to all female spaces without any female being allowed to question this.

So men get:
Men's toilets, unisex toilets and if they want, women's toilets.

Women get no spaces away from men.

That's the problem.

Could you say whether you find women posting you cannot change sex part of the issue?

My issue is racism. Men/Women/Other/They whatever anyone is called or changing sex in whichever direction I could not care less. Truly. I wish everyone well regardless of what sex they are or want to be. I do not find it 'part of the issue'. My issue is racism

I genuinely have no recollection of seeing you on the feminist chat or sex and gender boards.

Are you saying you see racist posts even though you don't post yourself? Do you report them? Can you prove it? What work have you done to create a safe space?

Earlier today I commented on a racist post. In return you said of my post

"Make no mistake, there is NO other reason for that than the fact you (as in any of you whataboutery lot) are RACIST. Just because you are uncomfortable with that label does not mean you are not the very definition of racist."Now

Now that the racist post i was commenting on has been deleted by mnhq do you have any further comments to make? Or do you remain on the side of the poster whose post was deleted for racism?

Oh I'm not expecting a response!

Advanced search shows nothing by @Lndnmummy on FWR but a great deal on AIBU.

I have no problem with her concerning herself with race, or reporting racist posts when she sees them - that's as it should be. I do have a problem with her apparently reading a very large and busy topic without making commenting on any of them to record the racism she apparently sees, because it looks as if she's using racism as some kind of stalking horse.

It was a remarkable post. Yet that racism in that post was ignored and people claiming that we have ignored what women have been telling us even sympathized with that poster. And continued to berate us.
This has been a remarkable thread. It really has been.

If it's any comfort, I think HQ got the measure of it long ago judging by their earlier response.

Then subsequent accusations of racism on FWR but without specific examples, and making no other accusations against any other boards, leads people to wonder if accusations of racism is another attempt to shut the board down. The one example provided of FWR racism was posters ‘being angry’ at (an apparently) black poster explaining the wiki editing process and contributing to this poster being ‘hounded’ off MN. However, when I looked at that original thread, there were only comments thanking that poster.

Evidence is very important. Both for confirmation of accusations being made, as well as facilitating learning.

I thought you were genuinely curious until the above. Its not our job to educate non allied, white women, its their job to meet us half way. The behaviour on this thread is exactly that type of behaviour that drove Reni Eddo-Lodge to write her book, a quote from which is below.

https:/renieddolodge.ci.uk/why-im-no-longer-talking-to-white-people-about-race/

This

really liking your posts

I will admit to being rather shocked to see how many people applauded the now deleted poster considering the FWR regulars were getting a battering for racist posts that no one could even direct us to the thread where they might have once resided so we could refresh our memories.

And before anyone claims the post on this thread could have been deleted for any reason I literally have the receipts. I reported it

Unless of course they're women who want to be out, proud homosexuals who are able to organise themselves and have groups for themselves as exclusively same sex attracted biological women. Then they may not be who they want to be, express themselves and there's no live and let live involved at all.

We've been through this a number of times. Repeating untrue information doesn't make it true.

And we still haven't heard what the proposal is to do with all the women who can't use women's spaces if male people of trans identities are in them. Where do they go? Where's their inclusion and equality of access?

In fact in both cases the whole 'yes this was once your space and it worked for you, but now it's our space and a new and better space, and it would work for you if you'd only do exactly what we tell you, be who we tell you, and just get rid of all the bits of yourself and your reality that inconvenience us' is all highly colonialist and paternalistic.

Its not our job to educate non allied, white women, its their job to meet us half way.

How can we, if you're vague about what you're objecting to?

I see. The board has a racism issue, but we will not get the examples.

We just have to accept that label being applied without discussion, without examples because people said so.

It really is like being on repeat.

So many questions on this thread have been ignored by the posters determined to have FWR declared a hateful board. No answers, just doubling down on those accusations.

What a ridiculous thread.

It's basically original sin.