MN needs a closer watch of FWR

[BodegaSushi]

There is a concerning growth of posts with racist undertones cropping up on these boards, all under the guise of being proudly 'anti-woke'.

Apparently diversity is 'woke' and worthy of derision.

This is the thread I'm referring to here.

Disney went woke now they're going broke www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4836570-disney-went-woke-now-theyre-going-broke

Mumsnet needs to looks at why that board draws such types of posts, and why posters feel so comfortable openly airing their racism.

Attacking/ridiculing people for highlighting why something may be deliberately or unintentionally racist or problematic would go a long way to creating a more positive environment.

Did you really mean to say this @Socrateswasrightaboutvoting ?

Yes, the sentence isn't clear, what do you mean, @Socrateswasrightaboutvoting? Do you mean people should ridicule or attack people, or not? Could you clarify?

@MargotBamborough

This is the core of the problem. The right-wing in the US and elsewhere chooses quite specific issues to focus upon: anti-transgender being just one of these. Their propaganda is amplified by Russian (and other) troll farms, so you'll see such issues spreading elsewhere. That is why we are seeing an increase in anti-trans posts. At its core, it's false.

The core of the problem is that LGBTQIA+ (or however many letters there are this week) activists have alienated left wing feminists and large swathes of ordinary society in general by telling us all we're bigots if we refuse to pretend to believe NONSENSE, and yes, that does play into the hands of groups who wish trans people harm.

You misunderstood my post. You're being manipulated by social media to think activists are saying those things. Ask yourself who might have something to gain by sowing social division, and you'll find an answer. I highly recommend the article below - it's a quick one about Pride events in Europe this year and how they have been infiltrated by such activity.

www.news.com.au/breaking-news/surge-in-antilgbtq-disinformation-targets-pride-in-europe/news-story/87f43e734a56c4966a9137ca81364c1f

The stress on British born is because I am talking about racism on British based site as a female born woman who is still frequently shown, and has been for as long as she can remember, that she is not welcome in the land of her birth. My experience is not unique and not as bad as some, but its still pretty shit. But you keep twisting and trying to divert from the real issue. The is exactly what we are talking about. Have you both only just become racists or were you born that way?

"Attacking/ridiculing people for highlighting why something may be deliberately or unintentionally racist or problematic would go a long way to creating a more positive environment"

And if people disagree with you, is that considered 'attacking or ridiculing'? I have seen posters claim that disagreement is abuse before. I think it is now pretty important that you give examples rather than keeping to vague references.

You have claimed this is a very common issue, enough to join others on this thread in demanding MNHQ watch the board dedicated to discussing 'sex and gender' specifically more closely. I am sure that you will not find it hard to find standing examples of where what you have stated has happened.

Isn't this your opportunity to properly call this out?

The only way this can be done is with appropriate examples that are not just one offs or have been deleted.

@Socrateswasrightaboutvoting about creating a safe space where white and ethnic voices carry the same weight and respect. That cannot happen when one group consistent tells another their experiences are invalid

You can't create a safe place AND lay stress on being British born. One of the many supportive things about MN generally is the acceptance of non British born users, which parallels the preparedness on most threads to listen to the views of posters of colour. By excluding users born outside Britain (who are of diverse ethnicity), you are diminishing the value of the site. I suggest you check out the beam in your own eye.

Ah.

So I see the non-white people talking on FWR are the wrong kind of non-white people, and shouldn't be listened to over better kinds of non-white people who say what the posters who dislike FWR agree with and say themselves.

And the non-straight people talking on FWR are the wrong kind of non-straight people and shouldn't be listened to over better kinds of non-white people who again say what the posters who dislike FWR agree with and say themselves.

It's all a bit New Labour isn't it? You can be from a minority patronised by your betters so long as you stay in your box and on message and don't want to have a voice or experience that messes with the Right Think Nice Message that is being sold as the One True Faith.

And the central problem still isn't the inconvenient non-white people and the inconvenient non-straight people, it's FWR. SO the real problem is an inclusive one of 'women fighting for their rights are all grotty and nasty and that board shouldn't be allowed, and those women should only have voices and narratives policed by better kinds of people who have first vetted them'.

You're being manipulated by social media to think activists are saying those things.

No, she isn't. Activists are saying these things. Don't patronise the women on FWR who know full well what "activists" say because we've come across it in real life.

Have you both only just become racists or were you born that way?

I am not a racist, but I was introduced to British nationalism when I was very young, don't like it, and recognise the smell.

I can't follow this thread any more - too full of holes, people whom I can't tell if they're being ironic or not, or I should assume have made typos or not, too many multiple quoted posts, talking at cross- purposes... hard for a ND person to keep track of what is being claimed and why!

I love this! 😂

"Reality doesn't exist! No matter who says what on tv, on interviews, on videos of protests, on social media, It Didn't Happen! Don't believe your eyes and ears, never trust reality, just believe what I tell you."

No love. Not a hope.

"it's a quick one about Pride events in Europe this year and how they have been infiltrated by such activity"

Could you please explain who has infiltrated which groups it is not clear what relevance this has to do with feminists posting on MN FWR?

The quoted post you are referring to was in response to your post of back on page 20:

"This is the core of the problem. The right-wing in the US and elsewhere chooses quite specific issues to focus upon: anti-transgender being just one of these. Their propaganda is amplified by Russian (and other) troll farms, so you'll see such issues spreading elsewhere. That is why we are seeing an increase in anti-trans posts. At its core, it's false."

Can you explain what you mean by 'anti-trans' please?

Are you saying that FWR is seeing an increase in 'anti-trans' posts? Or social media in general?

While I agree that any rise in transphobia is a concern what is it that you think is the source of that increase?

So you want the Royal We to:

Attack or ridicule people for highlighting why something may be a deliberate or unintentionalls racist OR problematic post.

And then read up on all the lived experiences of ethnic women before trashing their lived experiences as not relevant.

Are you sure that is what you want us to do?

From @MyLostSock's article:

Such disinformation campaigns feed into European narratives: false claims about trans athletes filtered from social media in the US to Europe in 2023, where a far-right politician spread them further.

Wonder what these "false claims" were? That men competing against women isn't fair? That men in women's contact sports puts women in danger? That women had to share a changing room with Lia Thomas where LT occasionally "accidentally" displayed LT's male genitals? That is testimony from some of the young women who were in the swimming team. Not sure how an Australian website would know better.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

No, she isn't. Activists are saying these things. Don't patronise the women on FWR who know full well what "activists" say because we've come across it in real life.

Not denying what may have been heard in real life, but on social media, I'd take with heap of salt.

Did you read the article I posted?

Yes, I did. Perhaps you'd like to point out how it's relevant to FWR?

Stepping back from the intersection of FWR and ethnicity, there are many other circumstances where women have to deal with extra layer(s) of shit due to disability, sexuality, age, neurodiversity, pregnancy, religion, and/or marital status, amongst others. The thing that we all have in common is that we are women, and that is the lens through which discussions are held in FWR. Not to say that any of the other characteristics aren't important, just that they are not the prime focus of that forum.

AFAIK there is no requirement to make FWR a safe space for anyone, only that we abide by MN guidelines. Anyone could be anyone when they are posting here, which is why conversations and discussions should "play the ball, not the (wo)man". Your rationale stands or falls on the argument you can make, rather than flinging out a "blasphemy" accusation and then retreating when you can't make a logical counter-argument to those who disagree with you.

but on social media, I'd take with heap of salt.

Now you see the reason I know what many of these "activists" say, is that they post it on their own social media accounts in their own words. Are you implying they were hacked?

Your article does seem to have alot of claims in it that I've not personally seen.

Perhaps you need to reframe your news feed if you are seeing all these things that are claimed.

Thanks for highlighting, that should read *Not attacking or ridiculing...

The thing that we all have in common is that we are women, and that is the lens through which discussions are held in FWR. Not to say that any of the other characteristics aren't important, just that they are not the prime focus of that forum.

This.

This is the issue with posters who speak in very vague terms on this thread. What the actual fuck was meant by this?

And the article posted had nothing to do with the UK. But is being used to tell UK feminists that we are all being influenced by social media posts in completely different countries.

And by the way, those social media posts look very fucked up, yet we are being 'influenced' by them? I cannot decide at this point whether it is prejudice or whether it is lack of critical thinking that motivated an accusation that a UK feminist would be influenced to follow such fucked up social media content.

AmuseBish, the people who started the thread did it to make people fight. The underlying premise is

this topic needs to be scrutinised and the racist posts removed because they are bad

it is also bad that the racist posts got removed

everything women on MN do is bad because all women on MN are white

and people must not make jokes

The late intrusion on an insistence of the supremacy of the British born is a nice little expose of just how bad faith the whole thing was from start to finish.

A mistake on my part it should have read *Not attacking and ridiculing..

@Helleofabore

Can you explain what you mean by 'anti-trans' please? Are you saying that FWR is seeing an increase in 'anti-trans' posts? Or social media in general?

Posts against trans people, not just on MN, but all social media. And not just trans too: a range of gender, ethnic and 'woke' issues are targeted, dependent on the problem of the week. This tends to change on a regular basis according to what the trolls are targeting.

While I agree that any rise in transphobia is a concern what is it that you think is the source of that increase?

As I said, Russian troll farms coordinating with right-wing pundits. They influence public opinion and press coverage.