Childfree Mumsnetters' Board?

[musixa]

There's been some discussion on this thread about the idea of a childfree/life without children board, so I thought I would raise the suggestion on Site Stuff

[[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4811166-to-ask-why-so-many-child-free-people-are-on-mumsnet?reply=126404125

My thinking is that the board would be a safe space for Mumsnetters who, for whether by choice or making the best of the hand they've been dealt, are embracing the childfree life, to discuss the issues that uniquely affect us - some examples I can think of are discrimination when it comes to workplace holidays; planning for old age and inheritance issues, how to cope when your friendship group only want to meet in child-friendly venues; family pressure to have children.

I would also hope it might stop so many threads like the linked one popping up, which often attract goady posters.

I hope you don't feel this is a step too far as a board suggestion and will give it serious consideration.

I don’t know, I’ve seen some nutty posts on here suggesting that any man who wants to be an obstetrician or midwife must be a pervert

Same implication on here earlier in the thread, that a board for childfree women would 'attract' incels and ant-natalists; which would be our fault, of course.

Some people are born ignorant, some people attain it.

Also, the selfish thing. If anyone tries that with me I just say well yes, being selfish works very well for me and I actively embrace it!

The accusation of selfishness is very odd from people who had children because they wanted them.

Unselfishness in this context is e.g. becoming the guardian of children of a sibling who can't look after them, even when it upends your own life. Not deciding you want to have children for whatever reason and then doing it.

Happy to embrace selfishness, but then I've reached the age where stuff like that is water off a duck's back. Their opinion is just that - an opinion.

Also at a macro level, it’s the opposite of selfish. Having a baby is BAD for the environment. Even just in the baby and toddler years, I feel very guilty about the number of nappies and wet wipes I use. I try to use reusable where possible but mostly…straight to landfill.

So the selfish argument really doesn’t hold up for people who have chosen not to have kids!

I don't we don't have a board, but if we did, we could discuss articles like these, and add our own experiences.

medium.com/hello-love/the-unsettling-truth-about-childless-women-and-their-impact-on-society-351cfcab2d79

Oh for sure. I couldn’t give a monkeys what people think of me. I just enjoy the look on their face when I go “well yes, I do love to be selfish and please myself 100% of the time, what’s wrong with that?” rather than trying to defend myself.

I work with someone who says you should have to be a parent to be a teacher as otherwise “you just don’t get it”.

That’d do wonders for the recruitment crisis…

There's a certain absence of....logic and joined up thinking there, isn't there?

I went to two girls' grammars in the 60s and early 70s. The vast majority of the teachers were women, the majority unmarried (or not apparently partnered, anyway). They were deeply committed to the welfare and education of the girls under their care and at nearly 70 I remember some of them with deep gratitude. Even the ones who tried and failed to teach me mathematics.

Someone saying a childfree person is selfish is a total moron. Having a child is a completely selfish act.

Totally agree with this, so much waste!! Not to mention clothes, toys, etc etc

People have told me it's selfish not to have children because we need the next generation to be carers, workers, pay into the pension system, etc. But have they maybe noticed on the news that there are lots of immigrants who desperately want to come to this country to work? The world is vastly overpopulated and not adding to that is the furthest thing from selfish. I don't understand why these people who think being childfree is selfish don't realise this.

If we had a childfree board one thing I would do is ask for advice on how to respond on the "selfish" accusation diplomatically. I'd like to gently persuade people to question their assumptions but don't want to accuse them of being selfish themselves as that's just rude and I don't want to sink to that level. Plus I do believe reproducing is a basic human right - but choosing not to do so is actually the selfless, altruistic choice. Not to mention that my taxes pay for a lot of things for children including schools, free childcare, etc (and I work/earn more than I probably would have had I been a mother and therefore pay more taxes). That is how I contribute to the next generation and I am perfectly happy doing so but again, it's not selfish.

When you consider than having a child is one of the worst things carbon footprint wise for the environment, I just don't understand the 'selfish not to have them' argument at all.

I think the selfish accusation sometimes stems from envy and bitterness. People who say it regret their choice to have children or feel they had no choice to begin with.

Not to mention that my taxes pay for a lot of things for children including schools, free childcare, etc (and I work/earn more than I probably would have had I been a mother and therefore pay more taxes). That is how I contribute to the next generation and I am perfectly happy doing so but again, it's not selfish

This side of the bargain is one that frequently is either forgotten or ignored. In the days when I read the online Guardian articles about the childfree often popped up, and the comments below were full of 'well my kids are going to be paying your pension' etc etc. I got a bit tired of pointing out that since 1975 when I started work my taxes have contributed to the education, health and general wellbeing of two generations and will continue to do so till the day I die; so it's not as if I'm freeloading here.

And it would be nice to have some fucking gratitude occasionally. Not that I'm holding my breath.

Having children is a totally selfish act - people have them because they have an urge to, not for the “greater good” so they can become carers! In fact 99% of Mumsnetters would actively baulk at their kids becoming carers, as they only want them to be lawyers/consultants/investment bankers 😂

I would totally support a childfree board. I joined here years ago when a MN thread was referenced in the Daily Mail, and have stayed since, even though I am childfree.

I don’t see a childless person as paying the education of my children, I see them paying back for their own. In the same those paying for the pensions of others will get their turn to receive.
I don’t think either having or not having children is more or less selfish. We need a younger generation but we don’t need everyone to have children.

I’ve even tried countering the “selfish” thing by saying that it’s not in any child’s interest to be parented by me - there is at least 2 generations of generational parenting trauma behind me, I’m mentally ill, I love sleep, I have no patience and I find the company of children utterly tedious.

At least two parents on here have told me that that’s not a reason to deny someone being born, as someone who has been born would always be glad that they’re here.

There is no argument on MN that will be accepted. I’ve given up justifying that I’m not selfish - far too many people have a vested interest in not believing it, for whatever reason.

On a side note, I agree @BonesBrennanz but you’re in a minority on here. Most believe that they’re only having kids to pay our pensions and look after us in our nursing homes. Whenever I point out that I’ve paid into my own pension and will be off to Dignitas, they then switch to “my kids will be your supermarket workers”. Like I said - you can’t win.

At least two parents on here have told me that that’s not a reason to deny someone being born, as someone who has been born would always be glad that they’re here.

Oh yes the old “if your parents had felt like you you wouldn’t be here”. It’s ridiculous.

Oh god this one! It’s so laughably ridiculous. If I’d never been born then I wouldn’t know about it would I? It’s not like my consciousness was floating around in space waiting for a willing couple to shag and create me a zygote to inhabit. I’m pretty sure the kids of abusive parents don’t say to themselves “ah well, my childhood was shit and fucked me up for life but at least I exist!” I had to have a lot of therapy to get to a point of being pleased I exist. It’s definitely not down to my parents!

Ah yes, everyone’s really happy to be alive even if they’ve had a crap time, that’s why suicide doesn’t exist.

The other even more stupid argument is “you were a child once!”. What’s that even supposed to mean? I have to like or want something if I was once that thing? My vegan brother was a meateater once, but he doesn’t want to be one again or encourage more people to become one!

Or the classic “if everyone felt like you the human race would die out!” Yes. Good. I’m absolutely fine with that.

I've yet to meet one person who genuinely choose to have a child for the benefit of society (or to nurse me when I'm old).

I agree, no one has children for altruistic reasons. I think a lot of the time it's an instinct for people to want them, which some have and some haven't. I was at a busy country park yesterday, sitting on the grass near a young woman and her partner. The woman suddenly started cooing over a nearby toddler 'Aww, isn't he sweet, look at the way he's holding his daddy's hand, etc.' - narrating the progress of this small child admiringly. I hadn't even noticed the child amongst all the other people but this woman had zoned in on him in the crowd. as if by instinct.

I've just remembered years ago a poster posted two threads.

Summary of thread 1 was: " I want a dog. I don't have great finances, I value my free time and I don't have much patience but I really feel the urge to have one."
Answers: totally selfish, don't get a dog if you aren't set up for one. You're a horrible person..

The same poster on thread 2:
"I want a child. I don't have great finances, bit worried about my free time and don't have much patience but I really feel the urge to have one."
Answers: Have one! You'll always regret it if you don't. You'll work everything out.

They got pulled after everyone cottoned on but I hope someone else remembers?!