Childfree Mumsnetters' Board?

[musixa]

There's been some discussion on this thread about the idea of a childfree/life without children board, so I thought I would raise the suggestion on Site Stuff

[[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4811166-to-ask-why-so-many-child-free-people-are-on-mumsnet?reply=126404125

My thinking is that the board would be a safe space for Mumsnetters who, for whether by choice or making the best of the hand they've been dealt, are embracing the childfree life, to discuss the issues that uniquely affect us - some examples I can think of are discrimination when it comes to workplace holidays; planning for old age and inheritance issues, how to cope when your friendship group only want to meet in child-friendly venues; family pressure to have children.

I would also hope it might stop so many threads like the linked one popping up, which often attract goady posters.

I hope you don't feel this is a step too far as a board suggestion and will give it serious consideration.

Yep, whatever that instinct is, I don’t have it. My grandma’s always like “but don’t you want a baby to look after?”. Nope, I don’t want to look after anything, not even a pet. Having someone depend on me would literally be my worst nightmare. I hate neediness as a trait and don’t enjoy caring - that’s why I work in tech, not as a carer or nurse or teacher. I also have no interest in seeing my face reflected back at me in a small person; that seems a bizarre/narcissistic desire. But some people just don’t understand that others can’t get joy from something they can, and vice versa!

Ugh, on other forums I’ve seen people saying they are already struggling with bills and finances but want another kid, and everyone is like “oh yeah go for it! You’ll find a way to make it work” 🤨 Really sound advice there…..

there is at least 2 generations of generational parenting trauma behind me, I’m mentally ill, I love sleep, I have no patience and I find the company of children utterly tedious

I've look at a couple of generations of mothering in my family and have no desire to pass that on. Ditto on loving sleep, having no patience and finding children tedious.'Mum, whyyyyyyy?' and 'the wheels on the bus' ad infinitum? no thanks. I have a strong suspicion my DM was the same but came from generation with no decent contraception and that was expected to have babies.

DH's grandmother has explicitly told us she doesn't want us to have children. She says the world is falling apart and we'd be selfish to leave it to another generation. She also thinks she's too young to be a great gran 😂I love her.

Yes I can relate to this! As it happens I do have 2 dogs and I adore animals but I find them a bind sometimes. The difference between them and kids though is they (almost) always obey me, I've trained them to sleep in til 10/11am, they don't have tantrums, and they can be left at home alone for several hours without incident. I'd find it really hard to have a dog with separation anxiety that could never be left....like a child!

But I totally relate to finding neediness an ick. I find it REALLY awkward when people are crying, even my partner, it's like I find something a bit gross about seeing the vulnerability and patheticness. I don't like people seeing me crying either. I find the thought of having to wipe a kid's arse and feed it from my boob like a dairy cow viscerally disgusting and degrading. It's the total opposite of the animal maternal instinct other people describe. I actually almost began nursing training about 10 years ago, but dropped out at the last minute as I realised I don't like puke, but more importantly, I don't really like other people!

hahaha she sounds like my mum! She's always said to me "don't have kids. You'd hate it. It would be the wrong path for you." I wholeheartedly agree with her!

There's an in between state too (probably many in fact.) Until I had my own children I had absolutely zero interest in other people's. I would have said I was completely unmaternal. But when I had my own, I was devoted to them and think I have done a pretty good job of raising them. But I still don't like children generally. I can tolerate them for short periods, in fact I volunteer for a children's group, but because I think it's a useful thing for society and I'm quite good at it not because I love spending time with kids. Lots of things about them really get on my nerves in fact, especially the noise and incessant inane questions. But I put on a good act for a couple of hours a week! Now mine are grown up people keep saying that they expect I can't wait to be a grandma. Nope. Don't give it much thought. Not my choice, not my business.
Even when mine were small I wasn't much interested in other people's children, beyond noticing that they were maybe wearing something nice or had a toy that looked interesting that I might want to get for my own.
It's perfectly possible to enjoy parenthood and love your own children without being generally interested in children. Or, I am sure, to quite like children but not want your own. But the prevailing opinion seems to be that if you have children of your own then you must be fascinated by all things child related and are happy to have someone else's kid kick the back of your plane seat half way across Europe or to talk about Peppa Pig with some random toddler whilst they smear jam across your phone screen. And if you don't have children you're clearly some kind of completely intolerant witch.
I do know some women who are totally obsessed with babies and small children (my SIL is one) and a few who genuinely can't bear to be around them, but most of us are somewhere in between surely? It's ridiculous that in this day and age a woman is still judged so much on whether she does or doesn't have children. I don't think the same assumptions are made about men are they? I suspect that many of my husband's colleagues don't even know if he has children and he has been in the same place for over 20 years now but every time I started a new job I would be asked about it multiple times on day one. It really shouldn't be a big deal either way, but it still is.

Is there any news on whether this board can be created? There is clearly a lot of interest and lots of issues that we would like to discuss with others in a similar position.

I can't seem to tag @MNHQ on the app so if anyone else can that would be great

I thought that "Mumsnot" was a brilliant idea.

What I find really depressing is that the thread on AIBU about hating kids is of course being attributed to those of us wanting our own board.

I also commented on another thread about badly behaved kids where someone was saying it had been overrun by childfree posters and was only going to attract more (it hadn’t had a single post from a childfree poster and OP was a parent).

I do wonder if people have been lobbying MN not to do it.

Yep, and I know exactly what posts you're talking about.

@LilyMumsnet any updates?

It is actually, might need to be Mumsnot (Childless and Childfree Mumsnetters) so it is clear though

I would like to add my voice to support the OP’s suggestion for a board for those without children.

I am late 50s and have no children by choice. I was also widowed a few years ago and live alone. I have never had the slightest interest in having children and I don’t have a list of carefully considered reasons of why I didn’t want children - I simply didn’t want them thanks.

I have never regretted not having children. When my husband died, I was relieved that I didn’t have to cope with bereaved children at the same time as coping with my own grief.

There are issues that specifically affect those without children in our society, especially women. A place to discuss these would be very welcome.

I think it’s a good idea.

Mumsnet may be in part a parenting board, but it’s grown beyond that and has become one of the the biggest general talk boards that’s woman and UK centric. Mumsnet HQ have also been pretty clear in stating that the child free are welcome, so despite the name I don’t see why subforums can’t reflect that.

I think this new board is a great idea and an opportunity for @MNHQ and @LilyMumsnet to show their support and dedication to providing a space to parents and non-parents alike. There is a dearth of places out there where issues affecting the childfree/people without children can be discussed. As people have mentioned up thread, there are pockets (reddit/Lighthouse women) that aim to cater for people without children, but these are either vehemently anti-natalist (reddit), or serve mostly childless women (Lighthouse women).

Given that we’re now having to clarify what we’re saying on this thread in totally unrelated threads, I’m even more convinced that this board would cause more harm than good.

Ultimately I think there are too many parents on here who’d monitor it and run back to the main boards to misrepresent us and cause trouble for us.

I don’t know what the answer is but we’re never going to be left alone, despite half of MN seeming to want us to go away.

I saw those threads as well and thought hmmm how strange they’ve suddenly popped up after the request for a childfree board.... 🙄🤔

My healthy cynicism is on high alert too, I have to say

Correlation is not the same as causation though. Perhaps your hypothesis is the result of some sort of confirmation bias? We could ask @mnhq to investigate if posters happen to have posted on this thread and the suspicious anti-child threads. I'd say there are always anti-child threads about (children on trains/in gardens/running in pubs), so there does not have to be a link necessarily.

I hadn't even seen the AIBU thread until reading about it on here just now. I certainly won't be spreading the child hate - I mentioned early on in this thread that I don't hate/dislike children any more than I would any other category of human being.

Which AIBU threads?

There's 'to hate kids' and 'to think you should control your kids in public' - the opening post of the latter thread refers to children as 'crotch droppings' - a phrase which some on the 'hate kids' thread seem to be misattributing to 'the childfree brigade' 🙄

@musixa and anyone else looking for a supportive community of people who actually 'get it' in a non-divisive way, https://wearechildfree.com/ is amazing.

The opposite of "I want children" is not "I hate children". I'd say most people who don't have children by choice just don't have an interest in them. Nothing to do with liking or disliking them.
And there are plenty who parents who love their own children but hate everyone else's. So, in short, you can't know anyone's opinion on children just by looking at whether they have children or not.

Glad to see the 'I hate children' thread has gone!

@LilyMumsnet is there any update from MNHQ as to whether a board is a possibility or under consideration?

One thing the deleted 'hate' thread shows that the absence of a 'childfree' board does not prevent goady, anti-parent posts; and by contrast, I hope the reasoned contributions to this thread show that supporters of a childfree board are not seeking to vent hatred for parents or children.

And it would be an enormous shame to waste the brilliant 'Mumsnot' topic name idea😄