Trans people being allowed to compete against women in the Olympics

[OhShutUpThomas]

The Olympics are now allowing men who have taken hormones for 12 months compete against women.

It is NOT transphobic to say that this is grossly unfair and a huge violation of women's rights.

Women who have trained all their lives cannot be expected to compete against people with male bodies and who will be allowed roughly 4 times the normal female testosterone levels.

It's not on. We can't stand for it.

Please get behind this mumsnet. Someone needs to take a stand.

It's NOT transphobic to state that this is unfair. It really isn't.

There's no proof about the Iranian women's football team, yet it seems to be repeatedly asserted as verified fact: m.yahoo.com/w/legobpengine/sports/news/doctor-refutes-claim-iran-broke-gender-rules-174223101--sow.html?orig_host_hdr=sports.yahoo.com&.intl=us&.lang=en-US

As for posting a photo of them and claiming they all "look like men", I'm stunned at the hypocrisy.

Get your priorities right eh ipity

IPity well, that seems a definitive article with no biased sources at all.

In the meantime, women can see, and we can see that those are men's faces.

Flora - if you want people to take you seriously, you need to ensure you have your facts straight.

That I've seen the story about the Iranian women's football team stated several times on here as verified fact, when two minutes googling shows that it is isn't - that is not having your facts straight.

How is it hypocritical to say that they all look like men? They do all look like men and they probably are all men given Iran's track record on treatment of women and the sheer number of MTTs they have. If you look at any other women's football team the majority are very clearly female with one or two maximum that could pass for male.

There seems to be a myth that we can't tell men from women just by looking 99.999% of the time. We can. I've just watched a video of fallon fox fighting a woman before fallon had been outed as trans. It's obviously a very well- muscled man fighting a woman. So obvious it's ridiculous

Pity how many feminist threads can you try to simulatneously derail? Do you have multiple devices lined up?

This is Pakistan's women's team. The majority are very obviously female.

Ok fine. Carry on then. With that standard of argument, I'm absolutely sure Maria Miller will take you seriously, just as the WEP did.

Yes, now we're being gas lighted that we can't tell men from women. We bloody well can! I don't think I have ever met someone and not been able to tell their biological sex, and yes I've lived my entire adult life on the scene so know plenty of gender non confirming people of both sexes. It's still bloody obvious.

YY Hermione. It is gaslighting.

I'm with you OP.

Yet another example of women been sidelined, ignored and shat upon from a great height, whilst expecting us to just put up with it.

I dunno, maybe some people can't tell, in the same way as some people have prosopagnosia, so if you couldn't it might seem like quite a reasonable argument because you would just assume everyone saw the world in the same way as you?

I'm absolutely sure Maria Miller will take you seriously, just as the WEP did.

See! SEE! This is the issue. It comes down to 'Say what you want, no one is listening!'

Enough, I'm not sitting like a good little woman anymore. Nope.

I'm behind this 100%.

I have a 14 year old dd and she's now growing up into a world where not only does she have to fight for her place alongside men but also men-who-feel-like-they're-women-and-therefore-are-women. It's bullshit and enough is enough.

It makes a joke of the campaign running last year trying to encourage more girls into sport. What's the point if they're going to be up against trans-women anyway?

I wrote on another forum this week that my tolerance level is dropping all the time. Every time trans rights trump women's rights I become that bit less tolerant. It's just more male privilege at play. We don't hear this from trans-men, it's trans-men again and again and again. They can't just get on with things there has to be a big noise and a big hoo ha. It's all 'well, I was a man but now I'm a woman but I still want all the privileges I had as man and if it means I have to trample the other women then so be it'.

Looking at you Caitlyn Jenner and your bullshit 'I'm all woman except for when I want to place golf and then I'm Bruce again'. Fuck off.

There are quite a few transwomen who are men during the week at work and women at the weekend when it's all about getting glammed up for a night out who expect to be treated like women and allowed to use our facilities if they're Jane rather than John that day. Talk about having your cake and eating it too.

I'll be deleted (again) for this; but what on earth is a "pre-op" woman, if not a man??? Or is that too simplistic?

But a woman is anyone who says they are a woman irrespective of their chromosomes, what's in their pants, facial hair, if they're 6'6" and built like Mike Tyson.

what on earth is a "pre-op" woman, if not a man?

A woman born in a male body, obviously.

As a purported (female) feminist I've spent all my life thinking that being born in a female body brings social, physical & economic disadvantages due to living in a patriarchy. I now realise how wrong I was. I am privileged beyond measure, and will immediately sacrifice my rights to male-bodied people. Because that's not patriarchal at all.

Supporting the OP.

Today, I feel like a millionaire, does that mean I am one? No.

Actually, I might say I'm a man who presents as a woman then grab everything I can and fuck everyone else.

Am I doing it right?

Would be nice if mnhq got in on this, but i doubt it will happen. They'd be ddos'd into oblivion and all of the lovely "DIAF" ladies know exactly where their office is.

I'm with you OP.

Someone asked upthread whether there any sports where women are actually better than men. I think they may be at very long distance running (ie longer than marathons) but I think most races tend to be mixed so the trans question is irrelevant.

I don't know why everyone is being so aggressive to IPity. If the story about the Iranian football team isn't true, we (feminists) shouldn't be using it as evidence. There are enough strong arguments it makes us look weaker if we use rubbish as evidence.

And as for the people saying the Iranian football team are clearly men based on their looks - FFS. That's not helpful! The point most people are making is that whether you should be able to compete in women's sports competitions depends on your chromosomes - any other measure (eg how you look, or how you dress, or how you identify) makes no sense. Being flat-chested does not make someone any less of a woman. Saying these kinds of things weakens the argument, and the impact of the argument. There are enough people keen to pick holes in what feminists say about trans that we need to be more careful than that!

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/11903290/Eight-of-Irans-womens-football-team-are-men.html

Telegraph article on the investigation into the Iran's women's football team.

I wasn't looking at their chests, I was looking at their faces. We're seriously meant to believe that a country that doesn't like women playing sport in the first place and has a large number of MTTs doesn't have a single male on a team where all of the members could pass for male? If you don't like my Pakistani women's team comparison let's compare them to the Saudi team who have a similar modest uniform.