Trans people being allowed to compete against women in the Olympics

[OhShutUpThomas]

The Olympics are now allowing men who have taken hormones for 12 months compete against women.

It is NOT transphobic to say that this is grossly unfair and a huge violation of women's rights.

Women who have trained all their lives cannot be expected to compete against people with male bodies and who will be allowed roughly 4 times the normal female testosterone levels.

It's not on. We can't stand for it.

Please get behind this mumsnet. Someone needs to take a stand.

It's NOT transphobic to state that this is unfair. It really isn't.

Or to announce they are a man, take testosterone but continue to compete as a woman (baffles me, that one confused)

surely that would not be allowed, it's just the same as a woman taking performance enhancing drugs

Hermione yes Maryz was correct that is what I meant by 'intended gender' I am sorry for the confusion

Maryz
^it's open for anyone and everyone who wants to simply declare themselves the other gender. To take hormones and to compete as a woman, while having a full, non-transitioned male body. Or to announce they are a man, take testosterone but continue to compete as a woman (baffles me, that one confused).

There is a difference, whether transgender people want to see it or not.

It's like the difference between a fullytransitioned transgender woman discretely using the women's bathroom, and a fully intact male person announcing that from Monday they are a woman and want to be able to strip naked in a changing room full of schoolgirls.

That's why this has hit home to me, anyway.^

yes this sums it up I feel

I'm with Claudia here, I think. Castration does lead to reduced muscle mass, muscle density, bone density and erythro ... oxygen cells in the blood () A lot of transsexual women stop hormone supplementation once their changes - which include a kind of menopause - have settled down. Others continue for health or cosmetic reasons, sometimes both.

This is quite interesting: sherrylanina.tripod.com/castrationeffects.htm
Warning - It opens a noisy advertisement in a separate window!

I have no opinion on whether post-op trans* people "should" compete with their previous sex or their reassigned one, but as previously mentioned the IOC has already decided this with little protest.

xposted. What Maryz said!

Castrated males were used as the sultan's personal palace guard in the Ottoman Empire. I'm guessing they were still pretty fit, strong and fast. Not giggling in the corridor borrowing each other's kohl eyeliners and yashmacks

I thought castration (before puberty) made men grow a bit weirdly....very tall and elongated body with a small head?
Thats what happened with the castrati isnt it?

Looking back at that cyclist who's been told to compete with the women, Maryz - Is it something to do with what their passport says?

That story really annoyed me! The competitor's trying to do the right thing, both for their sport and their personal challenge, and has been told they mustn't! It seems sport's willing to embrace gender fluidity, as long as competitors are either "masculine male men" or "other".

Which pisses me off personally, as well as politically. I haven't self-identified as 'not a masculine man', thank you very much.

Don't know about the small head, suzanne, but yes. Their joints didn't lock as early as boys' normally do, so they grew more. They were apparently considered very sexy (by women) and I think some had long-running affairs.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castrato
'As the castrato's body grew, his lack of testosterone meant that his epiphyses (bone-joints) did not harden in the normal manner. Thus the limbs of the castrati often grew unusually long, as did the bones of their ribs'

Maryz
It seems to be - Keelin Gidsey and Kye Adams both still compete as women, and I've seen interviews where they talk about the effect of taking testosterone as part of their treatment. It seems to be acceptable in the US confused

Kye Adams retired a few years ago and took hormones afterwards. Keelin Godsey is deferring treatment, so no hormones.

Kye Allums, not Adams

Farinelli (first picture) was disinterred.

Slightly off-topic, sorry.

the link you posted is interesting Garlic, sherry talks about how calm she felt without testosterone, and how glad she is to be without the uncontrollable sex drive.
Men who are prescribed test' replacement therapy because of low test levels find that without testosterone they feel depressed with no energy, and are very unhappy about their lack of sex drive supplementing makes them feel alive and positive, 'normal' again.

The effects of hormones would seem to depend to some extent upon the mindset through which we filter our experiences.
Having identified yourself as being born in the wrong body removing testosterone feels like being restored to 'normal'

I would suggest that there is no such thing as being born in the wrong body, more that some inchoate sense of unease/wrongness/distress latches onto whatever is available and most fitting in the zeitgeist

Agree with you 100%

Totally agree. The hormones have to be controlled, but other than that trans men are biological women and I have no issue with them competing against women.

There's an interesting comment under that cycling article from a trans sexual:

'As someone who was diagnosed with Transsexualism, and undergone sex reassignment surgery, i believe the rules the Olympic Games use should be enforced in all sports. The Olympic Games insist that anyone changing sex must have undergone sex reassignment surgery and been on hormones for 2 years which all Transsexuals will have done.

Transgender on the other hand is simply an umbrella term, nothing more. Transsexual has been forcibly included under the Transgender umbrella, against Transsexual wishes, along with the Transgender identities which are transvestite, crossdresser, gender queer, bi-gender and non-conforming gender. As the individual above has not undergone sex reassignment surgery then why are the deemed to be female? They claim they identify as the opposite sex but as female do not have penises, then how can they claim to identify as something that doesnt exist?

Transgender in short isnt a medical condition, like Transsexualism, its a fashion statement and hopefully very soon society will opne their eyes to this fact. '

This comment was pre the rule change - wouldn't make much sense now of course.

Transgender in short isnt a medical condition, like Transsexualism, its a fashion statement and hopefully very soon society will opne their eyes to this fact. '

yes it seems to me like bunching up someone who slept once with a member of the same sex the same as someone who has always been and presumably always will be homosexual

I think the Testosterone level issue is a red herring in sporting events, since XY individuals with CAIS (who often appear as normal females until they fail to menstruate and are discovered to be intersex) are significantly taller than non-intersex women (though shorter than non-intersex men). In CAIS, the body literally does not and cannot respond to testosterone -- at all. This suggests that only part of the physical difference between men and women is due to hormonal influence, while some is directly chromosomal.

In light of this, it seems strange to even consider letting males who've transitioned pre-puberty to compete against women.

Good point Maryz.

I know this old, just place marking as I hadn’t seen it before today.