High-achieving ds feels teachers have turned against him in Y13

[stripycats]

This is a bit of a weird one and I'm not sure how best to handle it. DS is a high achieving very driven student in an average comp. He's head boy, only one to get all 9s at GCSE, is predicted 3 A stars, got that in his mocks and has an Oxbridge offer. I'm not bragging but obviously this is relevant to the post. He absolutely loves school and his teachers and parents' evenings are always glowing - as much in terms of his attitude as his achievements. He is always being praised for his contributions to discussions (does hums/arts subjects) and his questions as well as the way he asks for and responds to feedback. It has never so much as been hinted at that he is arrogant and I really don't think he is. He has a wide range of friends and helps out at revision sessions for younger pupils, open evenings etc.

Lately he has been commenting that in one subject he is being marked down by teachers and disagreed with in class, he feels, for the sake of it. To give an example, essays are marked out of 25 and he has scored between 22-25 throughout the course, usually only dropping a mark or two for the last year. However, now he is getting 21 or 22 most of the time and it's knocking his confidence. As the final exams approach it seems he is getting slightly worse which is worrying him. This is the subject he is doing for a degree as well. He also feels the teachers are disagreeing with him a lot in class and feels like he is being 'put in his place' so to speak, and he finds it hurtful, especially for it to start quite suddenly at this point.

I am trying to put it in perspective for him and saying they just expect so much from him and want to be sure they have done everything they can to help him meet his offer (he doesn't actually need A stars, but he'll feel a failure if he doesn't get them, especially in this subject) and that could be why they seem 'picky'. The discussion-based stuff could just be a perception, which I have said to him. I realise this probably sounds ridiculous but it's getting to him and it's not nice to see. He has loved school but puts so much pressure on himself and now he's not sure what's going on. What, if anything, should I do?

They are probably trying to prepare him for Oxbridge. A lot of students who have always been top of everything get there and suddenly realise that everyone else there was top of everything in their school, and many will be a lot brighter than him!

Also the disagreeing in class, that's the way the tutorial system works. He'll have to be prepared to justify his point of view etc.

Good luck!

Yes, likeliest explanation is that this teacher is - possibly misguidedly and from the sound of it a bit heavy-handedly - trying to challenge him a bit more. Whatever the reason, encourage your DS to see it as a challenge and develop his resilience.

He has make sure he doesn't take it personally. Focus on the marks, that's all that matters right now. Pleasing the teacher is irrelevant at this stage.

He'll never manage to please all of his oxbridge tutors, it's a tough system and he'll be surrounded by other high achieving students.

Basically, stop worrying about the teacher, focus on his results. He can always speak to the teacher out of class about specific marks he's missed.

Students need to learn how to listen to and appreciate alternative views and develop their ability to reflect on feedback. In the arts and humanities these are core skills.

he is being marked down by teachers and disagreed with in class, he feels, for the sake of it. To give an example, essays are marked out of 25 and he has scored between 22-25 throughout the course, usually only dropping a mark or two for the last year. However, now he is getting 21 or 22 most of the time and it's knocking his confidence

In humanities and arts subjects there can be different interpretations and viewpoints. In essays he will need to demonstrate he understands and appreciates this. He shouldn't feel slighted when disagreed with - academic debate is important. Your arguments need to be tested and you have to be able to respond constructively not withdraw and take it personally. A drop of a couple of marks isn't a disaster. He is still achieving well. Maybe it is a topic he has a slightly weaker grasp of. He can look at the feedback and develop ways to improve.

He needs to build a bit of resilence. Academically speaking things have gone smoothly for him so far, but there will be bumps in the road. He needs to accept academic criticism isnt personal. If he gets to Oxbridge, he will have to take robust criticism in tutorials.

He could approach the teacher himself saying he is concerned that his marks appear to be dropping, and asking for help to raise them back to previous levels.
This will force the teacher to explain why his marks have dropped, and advise him on how to improve.
Does he only have one teacher for this subject - are his marks dropping for both if he has two? Could he approach the other for advice?
Or he could ask his firm tutor for advice.

Thanks everyone - I'm sure you are all right and that the intentions are good. I wish they'd lay off a bit though as it's not really helping.

In terms of others having different interpretations, ds is aware of that and has no problem with it -he enjoys a debate. He says this is different but it's hard to pinpoint exactly why. He just feels like if anyone disagrees there is almost a sense of triumph and the teachers (both in this subject, which is weird) are almost gushing (according to him) over the other student. I don't know, but he insists it's different from how it has been up to now in terms of debating different ideas.

The written responses are difficult to unpick too. He's still in the top band but just lower down in it. I've seen the written comments and it's not really things that are easy to address, which ds would be fine with. It'll be things like 'not sure about this,' and 'not quite,' which doesn't give him a lot to go on. He has asked for clarification and says it hasn't helped.

You know, to me this sounds as if there’s been a conversation in the staff room … And I’m thinking it could well have been prompted by one or more parents (influential PTA members perhaps?) complaining that their children have been neglected while everyone fawns over the Golden Pupil. So now the staff are actively trying to perform evenhandedness so those pupils can report the improvement at home.

You can sort of understand it, if this is the case.

(But it must feel quite destabilising for your son.)

I do get it, though. My eldest was at the point where he never volunteered a response unless it was asked for, the teachers were very aware that he knew as much, if not more, than them in one subject so he just didn't say anything unless they asked.

Like I say, grades are literally all that matters now. Can he get a second opinion on practice papers? Tutor just to mark them etc? Loads out there who would help with that.

Even regarding the examiners in essay subjects, some variability is allowed, because the mark schemes are quite subjective.

He could try Tutor2u Examiner AI if it's one of the subjects they support.

@MissPrismsMistake I do feel it might be something like that but I am not going to mention that possibility to ds. If it is that, it's annoying as he hasn't done anything wrong and it's knocking his confidence.

I'll definitely see if we can get some essay marked by tutors - that's a great idea, thank you.

Has he tried speaking to the teachers about it? He could approach it by saying to them he feels his marks are slipping and ask what they suggest he does to get them back up. That might give him some idea of why this is happening.

He needs to learn how to cope woth this and build his resilience.

You don't want him to.fold when he gets to University.

This is another's thing that life has thrown at him and how he reacts will help his coping skills in the future.

Adapt and prove them wrong.

If you are gonna speak to the teachers- try and let him do the talking rather than taking over.

I have two theories which may be very wide of the mark so tell me if so (I teach three A level debate type subjects):

What he is saying may be controversial or actually unfounded and he is being shut down deservedly. Ime clever boys, especially in about year 13 become , for want of a better word, a bit cocky : overly self assured, if you will. I definitely have boys who say something deliberately oppositional, occasionally opinionated or even misogynistic out has a sense of 'fun'.

Or, possibly, is he talking over other able students and not giving them airtime? Students are often not aware of this.

It's fairly normal (and very frustrating) for marks to go down in year 13. It's a calibration really where marks in year 12 might have been more generous to motivate. Year 13 needs reality checks. If this is history it is notoriously hard to get an A star so the department may almost be moderating expectations down.

Be a bit wary of this, Tutors charge a lot and have marketised learning. It is really very common for tutors to want to demonstrate how excellent they are (and to be popular) by disagreeing with the teachers in school. I am not sure they would be any more 'correct' than teachers, given the subjectivity of hums and arts marking.

Sounds like he’s been doing so well for so long that instead of seeing if there’s a way he can improve he simply refuses to believe he’s not perfect. The work gets harder throughout the course… is he trying harder or the same? Is he missing something from the essays / work repeatedly?

If his confidence is knocked by not getting the highest marks this is something for him to work on now… not at uni when he will be a small fish in a big pond.

The teachers aren’t arguing with him. They’re CHALLENGING him. And he needs to rise to the challenge not spit out his dummy and say they’re victimising him.

That's a bit harsh!

@Isekaied Exactly. In 6 months time he’ll be at university, Oxbridge no less. If he “feels a failure” every time he doesn’t get top marks he’ll struggle. This is particularly true if he sailed through school without really having to try. Speaking from experience, there will be times when he will feel stupid or that he doesn’t really understand anything or can’t get anything right. It can be brutal and he can’t allow himself to be destabilised or loose confidence. He may understand this intellectually but the reality is very different.

Thanks @Piggywaspushed - interesting thoughts. I'd like to think it isn't your first two options but obviously I am biased and I'm not in the lessons. I know ds gets impatient with people giving very 'obvious' in his eyes interpretations and views but I really can't see him saying things to be funny or being misogynistic. I see the point about marks going down in Y13 but it isn't happening in the other 2 subjects and it's a bit annoying really. It is history and if an A star is unlikely I wish they had said that all along but they have always said it's likely for him and had no problem giving the prediction. Just seems a late attempt at doing this really.

See you say he’s not arrogant but this sounds really arrogant. His learning and ideas aren’t the only ones deserving of attention, time and discussion.

Maybe he’s showing his frustration with other students and making them all feel like shit so the teachers are trying to work against this a bit?

I’ve been teaching for 30 years - Secondary English. He’s under a lot of pressure at the moment. Some teachers do sometimes have issues with very bright students so it may actually be a reality rather than perception but impossible to tell. Has the behaviour of the teachers changed? Is it both teachers in this subject or just one particular one? My daughter also had this issue- not as academic as your son but v good at English- her teacher initially refused to predict an A for UCAS - we bypassed him and sorted it with Head of 6 th form and then he told her she should resit her L6th modules (this was in the days of AS). I told her not too- she was an A/B borderline at this stage and as I taught the same syllabus I knew she was better off focusing on her U6th stuff. Her other teacher was very encouraging and gave her consistently higher grades. In the end she got the only A* in her class and a high one to boot.

it sounds like he’s working hard so he should just keep at it.

Someone has to get the A stars obviously but it may be their (clearly not motivational at all) way of making him guard against complacency. If it is demotivating him and making him anxious the teachers do need to know.

I would have no issue at all with a parent emailing me about this kind of thing.

I do think that if he thinks some people's views are pedestrian this could leak out in body language and tone. Worth thinking about because it's probably unintentional. I had to speak to a lad about that only this week.

With essay subjects like history it’s pretty common for students to go to pieces the exam if they’re not completely secure. Marking him more harshly now will help with this and will prepare him for undergraduate marking in September.

That's not him at all. He does not believe he is perfect and teachers have always noted his strength in asking for feedback and then acting on it. He works so hard and always has - does office hours at college and works in the evenings (not to the detriment of sport and social life, but he takes studying seriously and is strategic about it. As I've said, he has no problem with his ideas being challenged but this feels different and I think your response and style of writing about a young person is nasty.

What absolute nonsense if you think this would actually happen!

Oh the office hours thing is great. My DS2 was like that too! I wish more of them were...

He does sound hard working. I think he needs to talk to the teachers. Or you do - as I said I would be happy to talk to a parent about how a student is feeling. We often don't realise, especially with the seemingly robust ones.