High-achieving ds feels teachers have turned against him in Y13

[stripycats]

This is a bit of a weird one and I'm not sure how best to handle it. DS is a high achieving very driven student in an average comp. He's head boy, only one to get all 9s at GCSE, is predicted 3 A stars, got that in his mocks and has an Oxbridge offer. I'm not bragging but obviously this is relevant to the post. He absolutely loves school and his teachers and parents' evenings are always glowing - as much in terms of his attitude as his achievements. He is always being praised for his contributions to discussions (does hums/arts subjects) and his questions as well as the way he asks for and responds to feedback. It has never so much as been hinted at that he is arrogant and I really don't think he is. He has a wide range of friends and helps out at revision sessions for younger pupils, open evenings etc.

Lately he has been commenting that in one subject he is being marked down by teachers and disagreed with in class, he feels, for the sake of it. To give an example, essays are marked out of 25 and he has scored between 22-25 throughout the course, usually only dropping a mark or two for the last year. However, now he is getting 21 or 22 most of the time and it's knocking his confidence. As the final exams approach it seems he is getting slightly worse which is worrying him. This is the subject he is doing for a degree as well. He also feels the teachers are disagreeing with him a lot in class and feels like he is being 'put in his place' so to speak, and he finds it hurtful, especially for it to start quite suddenly at this point.

I am trying to put it in perspective for him and saying they just expect so much from him and want to be sure they have done everything they can to help him meet his offer (he doesn't actually need A stars, but he'll feel a failure if he doesn't get them, especially in this subject) and that could be why they seem 'picky'. The discussion-based stuff could just be a perception, which I have said to him. I realise this probably sounds ridiculous but it's getting to him and it's not nice to see. He has loved school but puts so much pressure on himself and now he's not sure what's going on. What, if anything, should I do?

Well I apologise. I wouldn’t say I was nasty… just more forthright or a different way of speaking than you wanted. However you say he’s happy to get feedback and works hard etc so clearly my guess was incorrect. I would suggest you try to support him to feel less down when he doesn’t get perfect grades though as you don’t want him losing all motivation when Oxbridge comes around.

Also an A* is not impossible in History. So he will likely still get one.

Good god - the pta are directing this? Like some shady cake baking mafia 🤣

She means of the markscheme...

I think she means the top grading band not the performance of his peers.

Absolutely. All that PTA means preference stuff is a myth, especially in secondary where the subject teachers couldn’t care less or don’t even know about it in my experience. Do you really have that little respect for your son’s teachers who have nurtured and encouraged his intelligence and helped get him to where he is today?

He may well also get a shock in mocks. In some schools they are marked pretty harshly to keep the kids on track for their demanding offers.

as others have said, it’s good preparation for Oxbridge. Good luck to him.

@Yumyogurt It's an average school - by band I didn't mean bands of pupils, I meant his marks are still in the top band of the mark scheme, they're lower in it than they were.

@Piggywaspushed Thanks - I think I will email and it's definitely worth thinking about how he might be coming across. He reads around the subject widely and it's just a fact that none of the others in his class do that, even the bright ones, so in a way it's understandable that he may feel a bit impatient with them sometimes but he'll need to accept the reaction if he is.

Thanks @GoldenCupsatHarvestTime and others who have mentioned Oxbridge. We have talked about the fact that he won't be top there and will be challenged in tutorials and he insists he will be fine with that and it's what he wants. It does worry me though, but not because of the topic of this thread, which I do believe is something different. It is both history teachers and has happened quite suddenly at the same time with both of them, so it does suggest a conversation has been had for whatever reason. Hopefully their intentions are good (I'm sure they are) and an email will help address it.

I’ve been in the PTA in 4 schools & never felt or seen any ability to influence teacher behaviour towards students, just for the record.

Thinking about my own schooldays, I am thinking along the same lines as Piggywaspushed. I was very able in my humanities subjects, came from a family that loved a good robust debate, and I do remember in sixth form being challenged by teachers on how I debated with other members of the class who weren’t as confident.

@Scotiasdarling said They are probably trying to prepare him for Oxbridge. A lot of students who have always been top of everything get there and suddenly realise that everyone else there was top of everything in their school, and many will be a lot brighter than him!
Students like your son go to Oxford, they are one in a thousand but when there find they are one of a thousand.

I wonder if teachers worry about complacency in bright students at this point. I was in the AS/A2 era, and had dropped no marks at all in my English Lit AS, but still remember my English teacher telling me she had seen students ‘crash and burn’ and not to be arrogant coming up to the A2!

The posters who describe the tutorial system are correct. Stdents should expect to be challenged by opposing views and prepared to fight their corner. Sometimes you will prepare carefully for a tutorial and simply not have the opportunity to say your piece. Thats how it goes in the humanities. It doesnt mean that the time was wasted if you have all the material in your revision notes.

It is not unknown for a tutor to have a problem with a particular student. I went to uni in my early 40s and there was one lecturer who had the reputation of not liking older students. Probably because they challenged her. She would ignore me in tutorials to the extent that other students noticed and commented on it. One day I stayed behind and asked if I had done something to offend her. She told me I was "intellectally arrogant" and "scared the life" out of the other students because I had always done the reading, never missed a lecture, and came across as ruthlessly efficient. I answered that it was a pity she felt like that because I loved her subject and felt that I had a great deal to learn from her.

My personal tutor (who later became my doctoral supervisor) told me in confidence that she was retiring at the end of the academic year and not to become too concerned about it. At the end of that year I got a 1st for every course but a shit mark from that particular tutor. I complained and it was second marked by another lecturer who gave me a high 2.1 for it. The final result was a compromise between the two grades. However as I was only in my first year of uni the grades did not contribute in any way to my final degree result.

You have to take the long view.

I think both you and your DS need to learn how to be more resilient. I’d hate to think how you would both cope if faced with genuine adversity.

This.

They certainly won't want him to fail as their Performance Management assessment depends on his success.

Op I have a confession which I hope might help. I used to do clincal supervsion for students in the NHS and a very good colleague of mine commented that I was riding some students a bit hard. I did some reflection and realised that it was the ones where i could see a real spark and (don't know how else to put this) I was debating with them like equals....unfortunately I was also scaring the life out of them!! I had to learn to manage this and also realised that I had to do the same thing a bit in staff interviews (sorry interviewees) Anyway yes he has to learn to hold his own in debate. Does he understand this? I mean really understand it because head and emotions are different?

He just feels like if anyone disagrees there is almost a sense of triumph and the teachers (both in this subject, which is weird) are almost gushing (according to him) over the other student.

This very much sounds like it’s in his head.

The trouble is with perfectionist/naturally gifted kids is that they’ve spent their lives being good at things and being praised for their achievements, that when they’re not at the top they really struggle because they can feel like a failure.

He cannot always be at the top and this is the best lesson he’ll ever learn.
Kids like him can go on to suffer from MH problems when they get to uni and start struggling or get rejected from job interviews etc.
Failing is all part of building resilience.
When kids don’t fail, they struggle to learn to be resilient and this can take a big toll on them.

Does he play video games?
These are an easy way to help build resilience.

He needs to learn that’s it’s ok to not get everything perfect but it’s also a bit frustrating that the teachers are commenting ‘not quite right’ etc (my uni lecturer would do this).
He could ask for more specific feedback so that he can learn from it but if there is a chance that his personality has become a bit more abrasive recently, then I’d be careful about him questioning the teachers too much.

If it was me, I would encourage my DD to say less and observe more.
Carry on doing what he’s doing and see how his grades go over the next couple of months.

I was a swotty kid in school and in the top set for a bunch of subjects. However there were two teachers who made it clear they did not like me.

One was the sports mistress.I was physically unco-ordinated at sport and made it clear I was not interested. My bad.

The other was the maths teacher. I was not in the top set - but not bottom either. Probably an average student. Yet he always seemed to pick on me in class. One day he touched me in the stockroom and I threatened him with exposure if her ever picked on me again. I dont think he ever spoke to me directly after that day. The following year I dropped maths for commercial subjects.

This is very needed! He's a high achiever but also by the sounds of it a perfectionist, which needs to be managed as it can cause problems, especially as he's had no experience of failure so doesn't have any resilience to it. I'm biased as my sister in law (who was phenomenally bright) had a breakdown at Oxford. It's important to keep an eye on for anyone though.

For example, this is realistically a minor issue and it's become a huge deal to you both already so it's good to start building some resilient mindset now and accepting you can't just think there's a strange nefarious reason when you don't get an A* for once.

Just speak to the teachers and ask them how he can improve/what the cause of this dip might be and they'll tell you.

I agree with this. I taught A level for 30+ years. It’s a tactic to develop and further critical thinking. Oxbridge tutorials will certainly challenge him and hone his views, as will fellow students in seminars. He’s used to being ‘top’ at school, though not arrogant. It is good practice to face challenges which will extend his competence and hone his arguments.

Sounds like English. I’m an English A level teacher and there might be an element of fear creeping in from the teacher. You’ve got a bright boy in front of you, you’ve always given high marks. You start to worry if it’s just because you like their writing style, or usually know what they mean. I think we start to be a bit more harsh ‘just in case’. We don’t want to lull anyone into a false sense of security and very very rarely, if ever, give 25 out of 25.
at this point in the year tensions are high and the pressures for teachers to get the kids those grades is enormous. I’m not saying it’s ok that your son has picked up on this but I think this is probably what’s happening behind the scenes

In my essay subjects my teachers started marking me more harshly towards the exam dates. Obviously in maths you’re right or your wrong so I didn’t have that issue there, but I did politics and economics as well. It did knock my confidence a bit and I still remember it, but I just talked to my teachers about it and they both said it’s one last push before the exam to make sure my work is as good as it can be. He should talk to them about it, it’s probably just them trying to push him - which is good, but sometimes when you’re dealing with a sensitive kid you need to tell them you’re not being harsh for no reason.

I’m now a tutor and I always pull out the tricky questions as we head towards exams - but I tell students what I’m doing because I remember how anxious I was as a teen.

Your boy is bright.
Having arguments challenged is very good for his reasoning and debating skills.
He need to not be so delicate.

His teachers are being more harsh because they do not want him to rest on his laurels. He needs to keep extending himself. He is being prompted to do all that he is capable of.

Your DS should ask for clarification of where he can do better.
When he gets work back he needs to visit the teacher's office, ask for a meeting and be shown exactly where and how he can improve. Take the marks as helpful feedback.

As somebody who went to Oxford and studied a humanities subject and was formerly a secondary school teacher, I'm pretty sure his teachers will be trying to challenge him.

You say he's not arrogant, but some of your responses in the thread would suggest otherwise. Suggesting he gets impatient with others whose views he deems are "obvious", for example, is not a great quality and that would irk me as a student or teacher to be honest.

As many others have pointed out, when he gets to Oxford he'll be a small fish in a huge pond. Similarly, I often had comments like "this is not quite right" or simply "no" on my essays at university. You have to learn to deal with the ambiguity and have fun when tutors are challenging you. Sometimes they're just playing devil's advocate.

Two things can be true. One of his teachers may be being a bit weird and challenging. They may be preparing him for Oxbridge.

I had one teacher who disliked me, no idea why as I was the model pupil. She often used to say she was disappointed in me, but her lessons were boring and pedestrian. Sometimes there isn't a great fit between teacher and student, it happens.

You need to advise him to keep his eyes on the prize. Don't let teachers discourage him. He has had a lot of probably uncritical admiration in his life, given his achievements, but this will not continue forever. My dd is at Oxbridge and she has the same achievements (or better if you can believe that) as your son but her personal tutor is a bit dismissive and occasionally mean to her; should this affect her motivation to get a great degree result? No.

Not ideal but that's the learning curve, it's not about marks, success is also about interpersonal relationships and handling quite awkward people. Tell him this is an opportunity for him to mature emotionally, it will be.

I think they're pushing him to do as well as he possibly can. Some of my pupils who normally get A grades, got a B in a recent timed essay - I'm probably subconsciously being pickier now the exams are so close. Probably still worth contacting the Head of Sixth though, just to be sure.