High-achieving ds feels teachers have turned against him in Y13

[stripycats]

This is a bit of a weird one and I'm not sure how best to handle it. DS is a high achieving very driven student in an average comp. He's head boy, only one to get all 9s at GCSE, is predicted 3 A stars, got that in his mocks and has an Oxbridge offer. I'm not bragging but obviously this is relevant to the post. He absolutely loves school and his teachers and parents' evenings are always glowing - as much in terms of his attitude as his achievements. He is always being praised for his contributions to discussions (does hums/arts subjects) and his questions as well as the way he asks for and responds to feedback. It has never so much as been hinted at that he is arrogant and I really don't think he is. He has a wide range of friends and helps out at revision sessions for younger pupils, open evenings etc.

Lately he has been commenting that in one subject he is being marked down by teachers and disagreed with in class, he feels, for the sake of it. To give an example, essays are marked out of 25 and he has scored between 22-25 throughout the course, usually only dropping a mark or two for the last year. However, now he is getting 21 or 22 most of the time and it's knocking his confidence. As the final exams approach it seems he is getting slightly worse which is worrying him. This is the subject he is doing for a degree as well. He also feels the teachers are disagreeing with him a lot in class and feels like he is being 'put in his place' so to speak, and he finds it hurtful, especially for it to start quite suddenly at this point.

I am trying to put it in perspective for him and saying they just expect so much from him and want to be sure they have done everything they can to help him meet his offer (he doesn't actually need A stars, but he'll feel a failure if he doesn't get them, especially in this subject) and that could be why they seem 'picky'. The discussion-based stuff could just be a perception, which I have said to him. I realise this probably sounds ridiculous but it's getting to him and it's not nice to see. He has loved school but puts so much pressure on himself and now he's not sure what's going on. What, if anything, should I do?

I was a teacher and we had an outstanding student. I found it interesting when some teachers began to call him arrogant whereas I always found him brilliant. He initiated good debate and taught other students things they didn't know.

Anyway, after I left, I saw him in the local paper for achieving 9s in all of his GCSEs. I was really pleased for him. I think that there was an air of jealousy from some staff and once one member of a team says it, then it can spark others to feel the same. Teaching staff are bitchier about students than parents would ever imagine.

If he does get a top grade in the subject, perhaps then he could go back and question why it didn't align with the teacher's assessment.

Do be mindful though of the amount of pressure he's putting on himself to be the best and please everyone - young male suicides are high.

He sounds like a wonderful kid 😊

He also like the other poster said maybe under a great deal of pressure and misreading the interactions. Make sure he is sleeping well and not placing himself under too stress.

Oh - I didn't expect this to take off today after the very helpful responses I had yesterday and I now feel like I've incited people to attack my ds, which isn't fair so I may ask for this to be removed.

People are reading into things I haven't said. A poster suggested his body language may be negative towards others in class which I acknowledged may be the case though obviously I'm not there to see it, and I said he has told me he feels a bit impatient with people who share very obvious views and interpretations. This has turned into he is eye-rolling in class, which I have no reason to believe he is. He has always been complimented on his ability to discuss and share ideas. One teacher told me he is different from other bright students as they tend to get cross with others and he will 'work with anyone.' I said in the OP he loves school and his teachers and that is true - these are teachers he and his friends hang back and chat to after class and he's finding it hurtful that there seems to be a change in attitude towards him but people have suggested very plausible reasons and I am sure intentions are good.

@Random321 You couldn't be more wrong about him. He has a very wide group of friends, the head boy role is voted for by peers at his school and he's is captain of a sports team where he is praised for his leadership and motivational skills and ability and willingness to bring others on in the club. He's had plenty of opportunity to find out about life being unfair too, unfortunately, and has therefore had to develop a level of resilience. I feel like you felt gleeful running down a young person online and it's not very pleasant to be honest.

This. The issue with university is you’re not going to get full marks on essays. There’s no curriculum to know inside out. You can’t be a perfectionist. “Just” 70% (or thereabouts) gets you a First. Your son sounds to be in an excellent position. He’ll soon be at Oxbridge, being challenged, finding the work hard, but with some more resilience will be thriving and doing well. I knew a student there who was complaining because she didn’t have the time or ability to know everything about her subject for the exams. I told her there were times when she just might need to wing it. He just needs to continue as he’s doing and accept these small challenges up to exams.

@Dee9409thank you. I have offered to pay for a tutor but he won’t have it. He’s a very quiet boy and wants to just get on with it. He was not expecting an offer from Oxbridge so it was all very surprising. It’s also eng lit and his other subjects are history and politics so I can’t see it being an issue with his writing style/ critical thinking. Luckily the school have stepped up and offered extra support.

OP, don't take it on. People often are quite gleeful in running people down on here, for example, saying that when the student gets to Oxbridge they will soon find out they aren't the cleverest etc. I went, and I was one of the cleverest and I did very well there, even from my little pond. People often do like to knock very clever people and that's true of teachers too, so don't internalise anything that's been said about your son who sounds a great all-rounder.

I do think the advice about him accepting that not everyone will like him, and to keep his focus on his own achievements and not what others think of him is good though.

I hope he goes on to do amazingly well, I have a feeling he will.

Maybe he's just not pulling his weight with the subject as he's coasted for so long being a high achiever with out much effort

Maybe he's been over marked because of his helpful and best boy energy

Maybe he's just really struggling (without realising what struggling is) with this one topic and as he's always found academia so easy he's not aware how to ask for extra help

I double it's teachers turning against him unless his attitude and manners is poor and they have a reason to be knocking him down a peg or two

As for Oxbridge that's fab and hard work they are both very difficult places to study and really can be tricky for some young people as others have mentioned it is full of very bright very academic people and not every one can be top of the class

I know ds gets impatient with people giving very 'obvious' in his eyes interpretations and views

And there we have it. I see it all the time.

Your response to believing that there has been 'a talk in the staff room because of a complaint from other parents' says it all.

Support the teacher, tell your son to work hard to show what he is capable of.

Yeah being the top student in an average comp isn't the same as competing with the best students from the best private schools.
So they are pushing him hopefully.

He needs to see how he can increase his marks. Not take it as a personal vendetta from the teacher.

He's used to being the best at everything but in real life there's always someone smarter, better looking, more confident etc.

No, I don't take any glee in running down a young person online.

If you find it unpleasant, that's your choice.

I still stand by my view that a lot of what you said is arrogant, even if you don't see it that way. Impatience, eyerolling & being annoyed when others who have diffrrent views is arrogant - there's no way it isn't!

Perhaps being blinkered, and lacking self reflecting on what is happening that may be causing such issues, is a family trait!

You posted online seeking insite into possible reasons. I relied with some suggestions and opinions, the basis of which only came from YOUR own words and descriptions. I didn't made the information up. You posted it.

I don't take any glee in running down young people. I don't even know him or care so I can assure you it's in no way personalised. It was a suggestion. You don't have to like it or agree with it but it may be beneficial to consider it.

If I can vuew the situation like that based on words alone, it's very plausible that his teachers, who are closer to him, would form the same opinion.

Where yoy don't have a solution. It's always worth considering various and diverse opinions.

You must be extremely proud of your son OP. I would try to encourage him to understand he is doing exceptionally well & it doesnt matter if he drops a couple of marks occasionally. I really dont think the Teacher in question will have anything against him. When a school helps to educate a child to the level of being accepted to Oxbridge every Teacher is delighted & proud to have been part of the reason.

I agree with other posters. He is obviously used to his Teachers treating him like the shining star he is. When he arrives to Oxbridge he will be challenged possibly even beyond his capabilities. It all sounds like good preparation for the future.

Perhaps initiating a chat to discuss his feelings with the Teacher who has upset him would help him put everything into perspective.

I was going to say this. It’s very common for top of their school state students to drop out of Oxbridge in the first year as they can’t handle being found lacking - and often being well well below the top of the class. I think they are trying to make sure he has faced some of this before he gets there, while he’s still at home with you to support him.

It might have been poorly handled but I suspect that going to uni having already handled the shine coming off will be very very good for him in the long run.

Do everything you can emotionally to bolster him now and he will fly at university

Good luck x

@stripycats - elder DD got an A star in history (her only A star) in 2023 when there was a lot of downward pressure on A level grades, so please don’t imagine it’s impossible.

I think politely speaking to the teacher could be helpful, especially since, as you say, feed back such as “not quite” is quite hard to address.

Good luck to your son for his A levels. Fingers crossed for Oxbridge.

There is ever chance he will be one of the tops at Oxbridge though same as a chance he won't be

He sounds like a bright kid. A bit arrogant, and slightly unaware of his actions and their influence on others and their mental health or learning, and possibly slightly coddled too, but tell me a mam who doesn't want the best for their kid

Think some work around self awareness and asking his teachers in appropriate ways where he's missing the points

At this point of Year 13, with exams just around the corner, I think I'd tell my kid to just put his head down, enjoy the next couple of months as a phase of life that'll never come again, and concentrate on his exam prep.
It'll be Easter hols in a matter of days, and when they return, it'll be into exam mode. The time for debating with teachers will have passed, and it's all about getting through the exams.

And, for what it's worth, while I'm sure your son is genuinely a nice boy, Year 13s can get a bit accidentally twatty, especially when they're the top of the school. And head boy literally is "top of the school". They get a little bit big for their boots.
This perceived treatment from this one teacher could be anything from a clumsy attempt to get him ready for the rigours of Oxbridge, where he won't be top dog any more, to a pure personality clash.
It could be a good lesson for him in learning that however hard you try, there's always going to be someone out there who isn't a tiny bit interested in what you're selling.

Came to say exactly this: it is the best preparation they could be giving him at this point.

He will need, more than anything, a confident humility. Tutorial systems WILL push him around and test his assertions, and it's why Oxbridge isn't the right place for every student. Some get squashed, others rise to the challenge (and slightly enjoy it). Wait till he gets to a Viva if he does postgrad! They tear strips off the candidate's thesis (two examiners on one candidate) then, usually, turn round at the end with a smile and handshake. It's the Oxbridge system. You have to be academically tough.

As for the "he will feel a failure if he doesn't get the a stars he doesn't actually need", he needs to get a grip here. Many would love to be in the position of not needing what they are hoping or predicted to get, and he really needs to be doing some contextualising around that.

Short summary is, if he doesn't enjoy being pushed and striving in the face of apparent resistance to his ideas, it maybe isn't the right university choice for him. Do you think his teachers have an inkling of that? Because no matter how he shines in his current little pool, he will shortly meet far bigger fish and have to stay afloat.

He just feels like if anyone disagrees there is almost a sense of triumph and the teachers (both in this subject, which is weird) are almost gushing (according to him) over the other student.

You've focussed entirely on why they are doing this to your son. What about if they're not doing it negatively to your son, but positively, to the other students?

You said that they've both started doing it at the same time - perhaps they had a discussion where they realised that students in the class were reluctant to take on the 'A*' student and were deferring to his ideas or keeping their opinions quiet, particularly if he has a tendency to dismiss them as obvious? So praising the opposing view is to encourage them, not disparage him? While at the same time they could be thinking that it is good for him to be challenged to make sure he achieves the top grade.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't email them to say that he is finding it difficult in lessons at the moment and wondering what he needs to do to improve.

You say he isn’t arrogant but it sounds arrogant to assume that teachers are marking him down for no good reason, rather than consider whether he might have become complacent and failed to develop his abilities as expected.

It also sounds arrogant to say teachers are “gushing” over other students who do well when you refer to him yourself as “the golden pupil”. Someone who has a healthy attitude and feels secure in their achievements wouldn’t normally begrudge other people being celebrated.

I suspect Oxbridge will come as a big shock if his identity is built so strongly around his achievements and status that anything not reinforcing this feels like a threat to him.

I’d have a chat with his teachers in the first instance - not to complain but to ask if they feel there is anything he could work on or improve at, or anything they are concerned about.

I’d also consider whether he would benefit from any additional emotional/therapeutic support prior to his transition to uni. It’s not unusual for so called “high achieving” kids to crash and burn at uni, especially Oxbridge, for a variety of reasons eg undiagnosed neurodivergence, the pressure of expectations, lack of self esteem when not given constant reinforcement etc.

Uh-huh. So who are these enlightened teachers at this normal comp? Masters of learning? Gurus of the art of teaching? Those who know no ego? Managing to remain equanimous when their world is collapsing?

Always best to prepare someone to transition from big fish, small pond to small fish big pond. Like others on the thread, I went from a state school (NI grammar) to Cambridge. Usual story, top A level grades, academic subjects.

It was a big change in gear, let me tell you, and a huge shock to the system.

I think he’s just outgrown them. He likely does know more about his subject than some of the others and possibly the teachers. Not long to go now, I’d just hang in there if I were
him. If it helps, I was in a similar position many moons ago, with a new English A’level teacher last minute. She was useless, thought it was all a big joke and openly told us how she’d got an E in her own English A’level. Hardly reassuring! I gave up going to her lessons, weirdly with permission from the Head of English (who spent most of his time in the pub) and still got an A. Your DS knows his stuff, there’s not much more to be gained now, so he could also consider just opting out of the lessons.

This is too far fetched. I have worked in schools all my life. Mostly comprehensives but also private with very active PTA. I don't know who the head of the PTA is in my current school and I haven't ever known who they were in any of the schools I have worked in. Most parental communication does not get fed back to the wider staff. Only practical stuff like remembering to stick to the homework timetable or important info about individual children, such as bullying.

Speaking as a university lecturer, the skills required at university are very different from those needed at school. It’s quite common for hitherto excellent students to plateau. Getting past that plateau is the difference between an A and an A* at A level, and between struggling and thriving at university.

At an advanced level, good History writing is about persuasion. It struck me in your comments that your son was floored by getting a “not quite” comment and wanted the teacher to tell him what was imperfect. At this level he needs to stop thinking of his teacher as evaluating his performance and start thinking of it as a human conversation. That paragraph hasn’t convinced his teacher; ok, he needs to read his essay again from the teacher’s point of view to see for himself what he missed. If he can’t figure it out, he can ask his teacher and if, as you’ve said, he doesn’t understand the explanation, then he can write the explanation down and puzzle over it until it makes sense. For such a bright student, prodding to learn to identify the factual, logical and rhetorical deficiencies in his own work is much better teaching (within reason) than laying it all out for him. His teachers’ execution of this feedback technique may be imperfect, but their intent seems reasonable.

His worries about teachers encouraging other students in their lukewarm arguments are confusing. As an exceptionally bright pupil, your son must have been very used for years to other pupils’ inferior ideas being heavily praised to try to keep them involved in classes with him. At Oxford in particular, the tutors will beef up the weaker students’ arguments in a tutorial to keep the conversation going. (At Cambridge, History supervisions are more likely to be one-to-one so he won’t have to worry about that.) He needs to stop thinking of classroom debate as a competitive performance, and start appreciating the joy of jousting with ideas to get closer to the truth. The teachers are probably focused on helping the other pupils, but they’re actually helping him too. By encouraging students to share even poorly formed and ignorant arguments, they’re giving your son something to sharpen his mind against, by letting him reflect on how to argue most efficiently that his classmates are wrong; and where possible, by learning how to salvage even nonsense arguments into something workable. In the interests of classroom harmony of course he’ll need to do all that in his head - until he gets to Oxbridge.

You could try answering any conversation from your son on this topic with “What do you think are the strengths and weaknesses of your work?” If he focuses on that, he should argue himself out of this paranoia and hopefully out of his funk. Wishing him all the best in his exams and at uni.

Put plainly, the majority of teachers, even those teaching Oxbridge entrance, did not have the grades to get into Oxbridge themselves. Some will have gone into teacher training with much lower grades, which I always find a bit odd, that the entry requirements are usually a 2:2 or higher- and that's the basic bottom grade at university these days. Many teachers go on to develop this expertise of how to coach people and get them to excel beyond their own abilities, and some don't. I'm always delighted when I find a student whose thinking is out of the box and beyond what I couldn't do, or just takes another angle on things, but some do find that challenging. Even at university level, there are better and worse academics and some of the best students are better than the worse ones.

This is all marked in the 'life learning' part of his experience, but definitely stand behind him at this point, I would take his side a bit when he's facing high expected grades and a lot of stress.

I mean this is quite a leap!

Im a teacher (but in primary), I wonder if the teachers are suddenly under a lot of pressure or had a shift in how they are supposed to be supporting them?

Lots goes on behind the scenes in a school so it sounds frustrating but it probably does have a fair explanation such as a staff meeting on ensuring that children don't just get constant top grades to ensure that they don't become complacent, or maybe they've been moderated and told they are being too generous etc.