High-achieving ds feels teachers have turned against him in Y13

[stripycats]

This is a bit of a weird one and I'm not sure how best to handle it. DS is a high achieving very driven student in an average comp. He's head boy, only one to get all 9s at GCSE, is predicted 3 A stars, got that in his mocks and has an Oxbridge offer. I'm not bragging but obviously this is relevant to the post. He absolutely loves school and his teachers and parents' evenings are always glowing - as much in terms of his attitude as his achievements. He is always being praised for his contributions to discussions (does hums/arts subjects) and his questions as well as the way he asks for and responds to feedback. It has never so much as been hinted at that he is arrogant and I really don't think he is. He has a wide range of friends and helps out at revision sessions for younger pupils, open evenings etc.

Lately he has been commenting that in one subject he is being marked down by teachers and disagreed with in class, he feels, for the sake of it. To give an example, essays are marked out of 25 and he has scored between 22-25 throughout the course, usually only dropping a mark or two for the last year. However, now he is getting 21 or 22 most of the time and it's knocking his confidence. As the final exams approach it seems he is getting slightly worse which is worrying him. This is the subject he is doing for a degree as well. He also feels the teachers are disagreeing with him a lot in class and feels like he is being 'put in his place' so to speak, and he finds it hurtful, especially for it to start quite suddenly at this point.

I am trying to put it in perspective for him and saying they just expect so much from him and want to be sure they have done everything they can to help him meet his offer (he doesn't actually need A stars, but he'll feel a failure if he doesn't get them, especially in this subject) and that could be why they seem 'picky'. The discussion-based stuff could just be a perception, which I have said to him. I realise this probably sounds ridiculous but it's getting to him and it's not nice to see. He has loved school but puts so much pressure on himself and now he's not sure what's going on. What, if anything, should I do?

This is what I was coming on to say. Many years ago I was a student who sounds very like your son. I was told by my English teacher to just stop working at about this point in the year as I was in danger of moving beyond the rubric of the exam and not hitting the 'obvious' points. My son clearly did just this in one of his Classics A levels. He came home full of how he'd written lots about a complicated theory he'd just developed. I was sure that in doing this he'd missed the things the examiners were looking for, and this proved to be the case - he got the worst mark for what he thought was his best paper (still an A star, but only just!). (He did something very similar in one of his Oxford finals papers, so didn't really learn).

I was also later told at Oxford, by someone I had thought was a great friend (and did later become one) that she had greatly resented me at school as in History I had always made the point she meant to just before she did. Unintentional intellectual arrogance is something teachers need to manage.
As an academic myself, I was often aware of the need to stop the bright and keen students from sucking up all the oxygen.

I was always a high-achieving student, and if I wasn’t getting top marks, I’d be asking exactly what I needed to do to reach them.

Looking back, I did come across a couple of difficult teachers. In some cases, it felt like there was an element of insecurity—especially with students who were very capable or aiming high. Not every teacher achieved top grades themselves or went on to the most competitive paths, and occasionally that can show in how they respond to ambitious students, particularly if they know your son wants to pursue that subject at university.

If that’s what’s happening here, it’s important your son understands that this likely says more about the teacher than it does about him. I look back now and realise just how much more intelligent I was than the difficult teacher and how pathetic he was- I kind of wish at the time someone had pointed it out to me. The teacher is unlikely to change their attitude and just deny they are doing anything, so his focus should stay on doing as well as he can and proving himself where it really counts—his exams.

However, if this teacher has any influence over coursework or internal assessments, that’s a different matter. In that case, I’d seriously consider raising it with the school and asking whether another teacher in the department can be involved in marking, just to ensure everything is fair.

I think this is a very good post. I don’t know about your son, and this may be way off the mark, but young people who have suceeded at everything they’ve done or never experienced adversity have not had to practice reliance so may be unprepared. Who knows why the teacher(s) have cooled off. I’d say it’s more important that rather than searching for answers he (and you) do not internalise this - at this point in an A Level course the writing’s pretty well on the wall. He needs to relax, keep doing what he’s doing, use his head, don’t let him turn a little blip into a wobble and he will smash it. Good luck to him.

One of my sons was treated very badly by one of his secondary school teachers. He is polite and quiet and wouldn't be dominating any discussion. He was no academic star but worked hard and was diligent. She was an absolute cow to him. Once he misunderstood her instructions and mucked up a project which counted for part of the external assessment, she just let him carry on without pointing out that he was making a mistake until after it was submitted. Strangely in the external exam where she was wasn't involved he passed easily.

I agree. The idea that A levels are harder than an Oxbridge degree is just categorically wrong - so wrong in fact that both universities interview every candidate, and now also have aptitude tests, because the A level results alone don't come nearly close enough to demonstrating the skills they are looking for and which will be required. Lots of candidates with all A stars apply and don't get accepted.

If it's his confidence you're worried about, and the possibility that he is drifting intellectually from whatever 'box ticking' is needed to do well in A-Levels, would it be worth arranging some private tuition so his work can be assessed by someone other than this particular teacher? Perhaps ask for the tuition to be solely focused on exam passing - 'cramming' if you like.

Once he gets to Oxford/Cambridge there will be plenty of scope for him to be more digressive in his studies, for now he needs to concentrate on doing what's needed to meet the grades in his offer.

He just feels like if anyone disagrees there is almost a sense of triumph and the teachers (both in this subject, which is weird) are almost gushing (according to him) over the other student.

Well, yeah, it's great when somebody actually has the courage to go up against the school intellectual giant. They need all the encouragement they can get.

Might be more useful to tell your DS that sometimes it's not all about him, rather than agree that they're picking on your son. But that's an important concept - it mirrors the equity can feel like oppression to the advantaged argument - which is an essential thing to bear in mind when looking at historical sources as part of understanding motivations, assessing reliability and suchlike, for example.

This is spot-on, and it is where I would focus any discussion you might have with the school OP - rather than him feeling he isn't being gushed over, which is, in any case, a bit subjective.

The falling marks are a concrete issue to raise.

Be careful about having essays marked by a tutor, particularly if you don't actually know the teaching background to the tutor. I was in the position of marking work by a pupil whose parents were questioning their son's progress..I was an exam marker too. The father questioned the mark that I had given an essay because an online tutor had given it much less. The online tutor was anonymous therefore their experience was unknown. The boy did exceptionally well in the exam in the end. I know it's not quite the same, but I would talk to the HOD before having work remarked.

Also, the other thing op, is the others MIGHT be catching him.

If it's both teachers then there probably has been a discussion. The "gushing over" other pupils who put forward a different point of view may be purposeful to encourage them (and others) to put forward their own views and not feel inimidated by the ability of your son (not suggesting he is doing anything to discourage others but if he is so far beyond the majority in the class they won't be oblivious to this). Your DS may very well be a shoe in for an A* but there may be others in the class who are on the cusp of a B to A and the teachers want to push them to take it to that next level.
I wouldn't email, I would encourage him to arrange a meeting with one of the teachers - presumably one is the subject Head - and say he's been a bit disappointed with the lower grades and what can he do to push them back up.

DS last report just before A-levels sudden had grades all dropped - not sure if idea was to panic him into more work but he very nearly de-railed him completely.

I think it's an approach that works for some kids - may be many teen boys but others it's harmful. He did well in end got where he needed but he had a lot or reassurance and support from home.

I had a PE teacher teaching georgrpahy Y8 - I was very quiet child rarely spoke in class but she picked on me but was upset when I had answers. She gave me an awful grade - but we sat end of year exams at that school and I walked away with the highest mark in that year group. If it had been Y9 I'd have walked away from GCSE and then wouldn't have taken A-level - got highest mark possible in both in that subject.

If he not getting helpful feedback - I'd suggest going to head of department and asking why his grades are dropping that it's affecting his confidence and the feedback unhelpful and he tried getting more information as still doesn't get it.

I think the only comments I have dismissed are those which claim my son is arrogant and insist that he is rolling his eyes and otherwise showing his disdain for his classmates. Not sure how you can claim that must be salient. I can't know for certain that it isn't, but given that all his life, including at a parents' evening 6 weeks ago, ds has been commended for his attitude and ability to work and debate with all of his classmates, I do find it hard to believe that within the last few weeks he has completely changed his demeanour in class. I haven''t replied to most comments, but I have acknowledged that there is a lot to think about and I believe that's the case. When ds has discussed it with me I have played it down and just focused on the marks and advised him to ask for clarification, which, as I said upthread, he's done but not got much out of them.

I do appreciate what people are saying about teachers wanting to encourage everyone to share their thoughts and maybe some people in the class are catching him up and the teachers want to ensure that they get the airtime to hone their ideas and so so. That's absolutely right for them to be doing and maybe ds is being a bit over-sensitive, I don't know. I do feel bad for him that he feels how he does though. No one likes to see their dc troubled, do they?

As an ex A level teacher I know how hard it is to teach a child who is aiming for and capable of achieving the highest scores. It's incredibly stressful, thinking that they (the teacher) might be the one who lets the child down.

I think your son should ask his teacher to grade him against the mark scheme and suggest what he could have done differently.

If he's concerned - and if you can afford it - then I'd pay to get his work marked by someone else, without showing them what his teacher said.

I did History A Level and one of my teachers tried to use this tactic on me. But I think your DS has the same sort of reaction I do to it. Instead of being one of those people who says 'I'll show you' to prove them wrong, you take their expert opinion to heart and lose confidence.

Fortunately I had another history teacher who gave me the support and confidence I needed and it was my best grade. The tactic teacher said 'oh so I spurred you on to try harder' and I said 'no nice teacher gave me the confidence and belief in myself'.

Your DS sounds like a lovely boy and I don't know why other posters are trying to imagine him to be a cocky, arrogant arsehole.

I had super bright boys in my history group and the right teacher skills can help everyone raise their game in terms of respectful debate. Or they can go hard on a child and make them more fearful of contributing.

The good news is it’s external examiner marking hai exam papers.

However OP being ‘top dog’ isn’t real life. This is a hard lesson but a valuable one as once he enters the real world, there will inevitable be 1) someone more intelligent 2) someone less intelligent but in a position of influence and 2) people who dislike him as they feel inferior 4) people who just dislike him as they do think he’s a ‘know it all’.

Learning not to rely on others approval or a pat on the head from a teacher, in the long run will probably help him - just a tricky one to navigate.

I don't have an answer for you with the teacher issue, but just a thought on the essay responses. Can he upload the task, his response and the marking guide to Chat GPT and ask for feedback on how he could have improved?

If he's not getting targeted feedback from the teachers, at least this might help him to see how he could more fully answer essay questions in the future.

I think if he feels something's changed in the class then it has. It might not actually be to do with him - possibly another child has complained that your ds seems to be the teachers' favourite (not saying he is, just saying another child might think so) and now the teachers are trying hard - and clumsily - to dispell that myth.

I agree with people who are saying take it up with the teachers on a purely academic level - ask why his marks have dropped a bit, and what you can do to get them back to previous levels. Of course you will never find out what's behind it, but you might put a stop to the weird vibe from the teachers in class discussions.

Our DS2 felt a bit like yours during his GCSE’s , he loved the science subjects and studied really hard, he felt that at least 2 of his science teachers were “off” with him, I never raised it with them-he told me not to.
He got 9’s in Sciences, he wanted to go to another 6th form, don't think they liked that ….
I know that one of the teachers is still off, our DD is at the school now, Y11 and I see him at the parents evenings, events and he totally blanks me-oh well! His loss, we’re lovely!
The other teacher does ask about DS, he seems genuine,
DS2 did well in his A levels, although 2nd year covid hit so a bit of emotional turmoil over those hideous algorithm “results”
He did a Masters degree at Oxford, came out with a first, now doing a Phd ( not at Oxford )
He studies hard, always wants to help other students, done voluntary tutoring,
he doesn't understand it when tutors, teachers, professors are “off” with him, he’s not boastful, smug or arrogant
I tell him its just human nature sometimes, who can ever work that out?
Good luck to your DS

(he doesn't actually need A stars, but he'll feel a failure if he doesn't get them, especially in this subject @stripycats

He's objectively not a failure for not getting A star so he needs to work on his resilience before going to university.

It's a common problem especially with naturally gifted and talented children or children praised for their results rather than effort, is that they get their confidence from their results, an external source of confidence, rather from their own effort, an internal source of confidence.

Using language like thinking teachers are wanting to put him in his place shows that your ds's identity is rooted in being the best in the class.
When teachers might be trying to stretch and challenge him, he perceives it as a test and his identity feels threatened, he assumes teachers are intentionally trying to expose his "weakness."

Make sure you praise his effort and help shift his sense of identity and confidence from his results to the effort he makes.

You understand that teachers are professionals and have professional standards to adhere to, don't you?

And that we are not at the behest of vocal PTA members? 🙄

OP, they won't be marking him down against the marking criteria just to make a point. Largely because the teachers will have to justify the grades he is getting to leadership etc, who will want to know why his grades are dropping. And, again, professional standards.

I could speculate what is really happening for the next 20 minutes but the only thing he can really do is approach them an ask them to explain his grades, why his marks have dropped and what he needs to do to improve and raise them again because that will prepare him for university.

This. It is incredibly stressful when you have a student with a juicy offer that is dependent on some A*s (I assume the Oxbridge offer is?) - the teacher may well be nervously nit-picking in order to ensure absolutely every mark scheme potential quirk is covered. The last Oxford candidate I taught had me re-reading every chief examiner's report from the year dot.