High-achieving ds feels teachers have turned against him in Y13

[stripycats]

This is a bit of a weird one and I'm not sure how best to handle it. DS is a high achieving very driven student in an average comp. He's head boy, only one to get all 9s at GCSE, is predicted 3 A stars, got that in his mocks and has an Oxbridge offer. I'm not bragging but obviously this is relevant to the post. He absolutely loves school and his teachers and parents' evenings are always glowing - as much in terms of his attitude as his achievements. He is always being praised for his contributions to discussions (does hums/arts subjects) and his questions as well as the way he asks for and responds to feedback. It has never so much as been hinted at that he is arrogant and I really don't think he is. He has a wide range of friends and helps out at revision sessions for younger pupils, open evenings etc.

Lately he has been commenting that in one subject he is being marked down by teachers and disagreed with in class, he feels, for the sake of it. To give an example, essays are marked out of 25 and he has scored between 22-25 throughout the course, usually only dropping a mark or two for the last year. However, now he is getting 21 or 22 most of the time and it's knocking his confidence. As the final exams approach it seems he is getting slightly worse which is worrying him. This is the subject he is doing for a degree as well. He also feels the teachers are disagreeing with him a lot in class and feels like he is being 'put in his place' so to speak, and he finds it hurtful, especially for it to start quite suddenly at this point.

I am trying to put it in perspective for him and saying they just expect so much from him and want to be sure they have done everything they can to help him meet his offer (he doesn't actually need A stars, but he'll feel a failure if he doesn't get them, especially in this subject) and that could be why they seem 'picky'. The discussion-based stuff could just be a perception, which I have said to him. I realise this probably sounds ridiculous but it's getting to him and it's not nice to see. He has loved school but puts so much pressure on himself and now he's not sure what's going on. What, if anything, should I do?

Agree with this, good advice 👏🏻

OP, I've read your own comments but not many of the others.

For the in-lesson discussion aspect, I think I would tell your son that he needs to reframe the teachers' reactions/encouragement of other students as being about those other students, not your son. Right now he's seeing teachers encouraging other students' contributions and being pleased at them showing the confidence to disagree with one of the brightest and outspoken students in the group and interpreting that as being about their feelings about him. Ask him to pause and consider that when the teachers respond to other students are actually just trying to provide those students what they need as exams rapidly approach, rather than being focused on trying to send some sort of indirect message to your DS.

As for the marking, I think I'd point out that the standards he's being marked against have likely shifted just a bit. It's not a dramatic change, but right now he's a top student about to sit A-levels and head off to Oxbridge and his teachers are seeing him and his work that way. One of the tricky things about humanities subjects, especially as you reach the level that he has, is that there actually is no perfect or truly objective standard. There's always room for improvement and a subjective element, and tutors or instructors will usually mark that way. I had some who simply refused to ever give perfect marks on principle. Finding a balance where you accept that perfection is unachievable while continuing to pursue constant improvement in a way that motivates but doesn't drive you off the deep end is a struggle for many bright young students, but it's a type of resilience that makes a world of difference at a top uni.

My daughter's Upper 6th Form History teacher was on her case all year. Not nastily, just "very picky and very hard to please" and, tho' DD always strove to do her very best, she came to believe that she'd only get a B or at most an A at A Level. She got an A*. It was his way of making sure she didn't become complacent. Not sure it was the best approach for her, but that's what happened.

I would not do this. Then ChatGPT owns the work and it can be scraped by other future students who want to cheat. I'm always surprised when people are apparently quite happy to enable this.

Come on it is a good lesson for him. Being praised all the time is unhealthy. He also needs a lesson of understanding that his self esteem is more important than what the teachers say.

Could he be coasting a bit? Coming up to exams everything does go up a level, perhaps he hasn't gone up a level himself?

This happened back in my day the teachers would overly praise high achievers then stop them from going so far to keep them in their place or the school simply didn’t know what to do with overly bright students! Have also seen many marked down on purpose by teacher to hold them back

But you have no idea of the experience of the marker on these anonymous sites.

A teacher marking an internal essay down a mark or two (it’d that even what’s happened) doesn’t hold a student back. How could it? Also why would a teacher want to, given their entire reason for doing a very difficult job is to help students advance - plus student performance is part of their professional evaluation…

What a silly comment you sound like someone who believes the ‘system is fair’ teachers will have their own reasons as to why they purposely mark some students down. Think about it. Tick box exercises

I’m a retired teacher. There is literally no reason for a teacher to try to make a student do less well than they could. You’re the one being silly.

Can you not assume that they only recruit experienced examiners? These sites have quite thorough vetting/recruitment procedures.

@Hmm1234 What do you mean by ‘tick box exercises’? I’m a teacher too. What fathomable reason or ‘tick box exercise’ could there be for us marking a student down on purpose? What we are held to is: did we tick the box for the best possible results for our students and (less importantly, to us as teachers) the school’s data? Literally no teacher wants their students to do less well. Even if said teacher is a child-hating tyrant (nb I’ve never met one like this!), better results reflect better on the teacher. We’re actually under a huge amount of pressure to get better results, not worse.

This, 100%. It is sometimes difficult for high achievers to realise that it is their effort that counts more than the final mark. It is why many clever people crash and burn after school - they don't value their achievements unless someone else does first. (Yes, I know I'm being simplistic here and there are other reasons, but this is important).

I have a 2:1 from an excellent university. I had to study to a much deeper level than GCSE or A level, and I had to live and work in a French speaking country for a year. I speak French, Italian and Spanish now. The GCSE courses don’t touch what you do in a languages degree. Oh and I’ve been teaching for over 20 years! All my departmental colleagues have been linguists. There’s a recruitment and retention crisis yeah, but please don’t undermine teachers’ knowledge!

Just thought I would update this following results day. DS got the 3 A stars very comfortably and that is the main thing. (No one else got A star in history). Weirdly though one of the teachers who had seemed to be putting him down a bit came up to him when he was collecting his results and congratulated him but also made a point of telling him that one of the other students got a higher mark than him in one of the papers. Why she felt the need to do that I don't know but it leaves a nasty tase and I'm glad that ds2, who is going into Y12 this year, isn't doing that subject.

Congratulations to your DS! It sounds like he will fly at university. Is he starting there next month?

History teacher sounds awfully petty. Just as well he's leaving her behind.

Well done - you must be very proud and I hope he enjoys university.

No idea why the teacher would commnet someone esle got a higher mark on a paper or why she thought he'd care at that point.

How unprofessional. Maybe defensive of their grading as having been accurate, look you didn't get full marks? They surely shouldn't be telling him another student's private information at all.

Like you say, main thing congratulations to your DS! Three A*s is amazing and sounds like he's well out of that school. He's going to love uni.

Congrats to him. Did she have the other student’s permission to share info about their mark?

Congratulations to your DS. Hope he has a wonderful time at uni.

One thing I would say though is that the feeling of being talked down or dismissed may come back to him as he meets new peers and tutors. It might be worth reframing this as "they are challenging you because they can see you are capable of deeper analysis" so rather than feeling dismissed he is driven towards strengthening his arguments. For a subject like history there is so much interpretation and nuance and multiple layers, its not a question of hard fact. Being able to defend your argument is critical along with accepting that others may have a different but also valid view.

Glad he got the results he worked for, your history teacher sounds insecure, what a rubbish thing to say

@stripycats - that's great news. History teacher sounds deeply odd. Fortunately, she will now be consigned to history as far as your DS is concerned and irrelevant to DS2. Onwards and upwards to your DS.

A little story for you OP. A friends child has just graduated with a first from Imperial. Never failed an exam in their life. One of the first things they said about Imperial was that they had never met so many clever people before in their life! This was a grounded young person, always had a Saturday and a holiday job on the go, did lots of sports, very sociable, challenged themselves with DofE etc, but realised within days that they had never actually been intellectually challenged and pushed by their peers.

They got over the shock of having to up their game quickly, and enjoyed it because as I say they were grounded and had excellent social skills, but I can see that for kids who didn’t have those personal resources to fall back on it must have been hard to lose their automatic place at the top of the pyramid which is what can happen when you go from thinking you are the only big fish to realising that you are one of a shoal.

Your son needs to stop assuming that he is being picked on, and find out why , maybe by asking his teachers, what he needs to do to push himself.

Just seen your update, what great results! I hope he thrives at University, and to be honest, re assure him that after the first day or two no one will care what AL grades he got, they will all know they are much of a muchness.

Thanks everyone - I find it a very odd comment for her to have made and I'm glad I'mm not alone in thinking that. It does make me feel she had some sort of issue with ds which is a shame as until this started happening he really loved her as a teacher.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter and he is so happy with his results and really looking forward to uni, where no doubt he will be challenged and certainly won't be top of the class as such anymore. That's one of the things he's looking forward to I think - being challenged intellectually rather than having teachers who had previously sung his praises without reservation suddenly turn against him.