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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Narcissitic Personality Disorder (Part 2)

968 replies

Gettingagrip · 04/03/2010 10:41

Starting another thread for us survivors.

OP posts:
pinemartina · 25/03/2010 20:57

Grace - an avatar is an interesting idea which I will look into - good for me right now as I live on the laptop.
Saddest my ex texts me extensively and inter changes " I " , "you" and "me" - total over identification,projection from him.Trouble is,I can now read them and translate automatically.
Maggie - my x wd spend a fortune on ingredients an age on preparation, then I'd see him in the kitchen while it was cooking,stuffing cake,biscuits ,cheese desperately into his face. I'd dare not openly witness this.
He has a constant craving for McDonalds Banana milkshake which he will go and get while food is cooking,immediately after or at any time of day if passing.He "feeds" me - angry if I turn down vast quantities or calorific "treats" despite my efforts to maintain a healthy weight.Then comments that I am gaining and don't fit my clothes - does same with dc's.

pinemartina · 25/03/2010 21:02

trm I often imagine what on earth might possibly demonstrate the level of love required
Of course the answer is nothing.
Crucifixion wouldn't do it ,that wd be a selfish pursuit done for one's own benefit no doubt.Which would be "putting it back on him".

therealme · 26/03/2010 01:09

Well I am back with more stories to entertain you about my ex after a delay cos I was skyping my sister in Oz. She's lonely and at a loose end but she does have a supporting partner so I don't worry too much about her...

Let me tell you about the time 'my car broke down'....
My ex rang to tell me my (rather old but reliable Mazda) had broken down in the suburbs. (Donnybrook, if you're reading Maggie!). He said it was the radiator.
As I was the one with the AA membership it meant I had to get a taxi out to the spot where it had broken down. So half an hour and 20+ quid later as I was getting out of the taxi he rings me to say the car wasn't where he said it was - but in town in a multi-storey car park.
I walked back into town. I was raging, but I also found the walk on my own without kids a novelty so wasn't too apolectic at this stage.
I got to said car park and couldn't find the car. I rang him, only to be told it was in another multi-storey at the other end of town. So off I trotted again.
And yes, you guessed it, got to the second car park and no car. At this point myself and the dc were going to be late for dinner at the mil's - so I rang her and told her what was going on. She weedled out the exact location of my (non broken down car!) from my h and I was able to finally retrieve it.

Funnily enough, my mil made no comment about the bizarre actions of my ex h that day. Almost as though she wasn't surprized?

Another good one was when my ex bought me a ticket to go to New York. He knew just how much I really, really wanted to go and this was a reward 'for being so efficient and running things so well'.
I was so excited that I told my mil and sil. My sil decided that if I didn't mind, she'd come with me and so booked a flight too. She even gave me some dollars in a birthday card to me to get us ready for our adventure.
A month later I did something to anger my h. I can't even remember what it was now!
Of course he cancelled my NY trip. My sil went alone. And again, nothing was said by either mil or sil.

So lets talk about money. When my mil came into an inheritence she gave my h and I a couple of grand. My h split it with me as this was expected. Within I'd say, 2 weeks, he had 'borrowed' my half back. On cue of the next row between us and that was the last I had seen of that money.

He also borrowed a couple of thousand euro from me which I had been saving from doing some p/t work. It was my savings to go out to Oz to visit my sister who had just had her much longed for baby. He convinced me however that my sister had 'done nothing' for me and wasn't worthy of my visit. He would use the money to benefit our family instead!
I never saw that money again.

There are more tales like this. Some insignificant now, some I have forgotton. But cruel, you know?
I can honestly say, that no matter how bad a person I am or was, I would never go to such lengths to punish somebody. It is cold and calculating. He once tied me up and insisted I had sex with him to prove I was sorry. He wrote on the walls in marker and my lipstick. He'd wake me up in the early hours by putting the bedroom light on to interrogate me. The more aware I became of his cruel behaviours, the more subtle he became in exerting them.

He was unspeakably nasty to me. But it was all my fault! I deserved it all. Apparently.
I believed him too at the time. Now, however, I would like to stamp on his head and gring it into the ground

ItsGraceAgain · 26/03/2010 02:38

It is. It's cruelty.

This evening, I rang my Mum. I was in the middle of posting on these threads - I'd been feeling a lot of pity about how her married life was, and how pleased I am that she's enjoyed some years of life with happy men, post-Dad. She was totally defensive. He was astoundingly intelligent (No: He was very intelligent, but no super-brain); he was very articulate (No: He could argue a rat in circles, but lacked genuine articulacy in any real sense; he used language as a weapon); he was so witty!(No: His wit was acerbic & smart, but useless without a victim).

I felt really sad. My mother is my father's creature - he's been dead this past 12 years, but lives on in his widow; she speaks with his voice and doesn't even know it.

I really want each of you to know how great you are! With every week that passes, every thing you do as "you" and with your children in freedom, you add a sane experience to a bunch of lives (including your own) - and save each life, incrementally, from following the pattern.

Mum says life with Dad was so exciting - all ups and downs. I remember, I told her: I can think of the downs, you don't need me to talk. Tell me about the ups? She waffled. She said they were private. When you sum it together, her 'ups' - out of 45 years of marriage - amount to some great shags and a handful of in-jokes. At no point did that marriage empower or enhance her. Whenever it made her feel beautiful, it was as an accusation and she was beaten & belittled for it. Whenever it made her feel useful, she was criticised & imprisoned for it.

Some of you, here, still vacillate under the spell of men like my Dad. Do you want to be like my mother at 80, having no history of your own; no ideas beyond your husband's? (We inherited our intelligence from her, by the way - he convinced her that all the brains were his, but a simple family tree shows the truth.) Would you wish complicated lives on your children, like ours?

Maybe not. So break free, and find your selves.

Maggie00 · 26/03/2010 08:46

heyzoos Crristo TRM, he was insane as well as a narcissist. He sounds several more notches up the personality disorder scale than my x for sure. Your x has put you through more, and worse than mine has, and I have never met anybody in real life I could say that too! So, wow, I don't mean to make it sound like a crazy person's prize day, but even I am speechless.

It's good to type it all out though I think. It helps you refile the memories. Every single memory that is filed under 'another crappy day when I could do no right' can be taken out and re-interpreted, and then when you re-file it, it goes back into your memory as 'another piece of damning evidence to prove his insanity'.

You must have been exhausted trotting from one end of Dublin to the other because he couldn't tell you where he was!! How do you mistake a city centre multi storey car park for a village 2 miles outside the centre??

Your mil and sil knew how badly you wanted to go to NY and yet they said nothing and didn't challenge the fact that you weren't going?!. They must know on some level that he is a scary unreasonable lunatic, but it was easier for them when he was your lunatic.

My mil saw bruises on my cheek. I called her JUST after my x had attacked me. She came 'round. He wasn't acting sorry though. His demeanour was that of a saint who had to put up with a crazy woman. Yet, bottom line, there were bruises on my face!. She saw them. However, when I left him partly because he was physically aggressive she labelled me an hysterical fantasist. Most of her memories are 'incorrectly filed' as well.....

You would wonder how the narcissist's family process the evidence that is under their noses wouldn't you! Quite a concentrate effort of denial is required...

therealme · 26/03/2010 10:36

Grace, my mil must have put up with an awful life with her h. He moved her into his parents 2 bed house where they went on to have 5 kids. He spent every penny he earned and more. They had nothing. But she has never spoken negatively about him in all the 18 years I have known her. I used to think it was because she was a very religious woman, but maybe she has just decided to 'forget' all the bad stuff, after all, he has been dead over 20 years. Then again, she has chosen to ignore her son's obnoxious behaviour towards her too over the years.

All my in laws have 'issues' of one kind or another. They are all swept under the carpet and ignored. My ex was always very vocal about my mothers ability to 'ignore' what was really going on with her kids. The biggest being the sexual abuse that my sister and I suffered at the hands of a neighbour. But you know, my Mum, my sister and I did bring that out into the open a few years ago. It was really hard, but we dealt with it. My ex has never faced any of his childhood issues with his mother. He chooses to think of her as too messed up to be able to 'get it' and regards her as cold, emotionally frigid and beneath his intelligence. No surprizes there then...
I'd love to lock my mil in a room for a few hours and really do some hard talking about what she really knows and thinks. Not going to happen though.

Maggie it felt good writing that post last night! All the things you tolerate in secret and try to put behind you at the time. Now I'm replaying them in my mind and writing them out helps me acknowledge that he really did some inhuman things to me. No matter how upset or angry I was with him I would never have been so coniving or malicious in such an intentionally planned and cold manner. His behaviour was psychpathic at times and he still has the potential to contine it. Well, you read his replies on that rc thread didn't you!

saddest · 26/03/2010 11:22

TRM..do you think he's end up behind bars ever? He really is one very poorly man.

The Patricial Evans book is good on all this stuff, how it fits into society as a whole, and why previous generations have tolerated what we simply will not. It also make you feel like a suuragette in a way, that it is our duty as mothers to NOT allow this to be passed down to our children.

I befriended my sister inlaw on facebook the other day. She is referred to as stupid and beneath contempt by my h's family. I have only ever met here on a couple of occasions, and she hardly spoke. What she did say was illuminating. She made a comment that told me that she understood much more than she was given credit for about her own h (my husbands brother). She was keen to be in touch on facebook and we exchanged a lot of messages.

Now she is vanished, all the photos, her profile, the lot....gone.

If i stayed with h...I would end up like her, derided, silent and obliterated. Poor, poor woman.

mathanxiety · 26/03/2010 14:13

My ex and I were refinancing our mortgage at one point, and he made an appointment to go and do all the paperwork at the company office. Both of our signatures were required for the papers and it would take about an hour to accomplish the transaction. The appointment time wasn't great for me as I had to pick up DD4 from preschool and get into the city, park, all in a short timeframe. To make the process run smoothly in case I couldn't make it in time, he had me execute a Power of Attorney form for him, which I did, but gave him a certain window of only 30 minutes, and I also made out a revocation form to file with the mortgage papers which I kept for myself and brought a copy with me to the meeting. Just before I left with DD I decided to check the address of the mortgage office, and found to my astonishment that it was at least a mile from where he had told me it was. I called him when I got out of the carpark (with 5 minutes to spare before the appointment) to say I was on my way, where was he, and while I was on the phone, with him bellowing "Where are you, you're going to be late", I spotted him across on the other side of the street. He clearly wasn't expecting me to be emerging from the closest carpark to the mortgage office and was gobsmacked when I told him DD4 was waving at him and could he wave back to her. I don't know what he had planned for the transaction he clearly thought was going to take place in my absence -- we were going to take out some cash in the refinancing to pay off a credit card bill, but I suspect if I hadn't been there, more would have gone. I'm pretty sure he had a credit card of his own that I wasn't aware of.

pinemartina · 26/03/2010 14:56

Just returned from unpleasant work related meeting to find x's van outside the house half full already with furniture that we have been restoring together ready for a shop,the lease of which I went with him to sign last Saturday.A project we have worked on together for 2 years,planning that when the baby born,it wd enable me to cut down working hours and spend more time with children - and him...well since he stormed out after Sunday lunch,this is all being dismantled as he removes all the stock from my garage,dropping and smashing pieces on the pavement.As I go round the back,he is washing down the patio with a broom.He sees me staggering in,belly bursting,and shouts "look what one of your kids has done - a brand new tin of emulsion has been left open ready for me to trip over- you obviously told them I was here today,and I've ruined my shoes and jeans"........
The last part of the sentence I only heard as I went in,closing the door,saying nothing.
He then shouted through the window " believe me,sweetheart,I'm not shouting,you've never heard me shout so far but you are working hard at pushing the right buttons"
I did not reply.
I am upstairs and can hear him chatting amiably to the next door man as he empties all our 2 years work into the van,wrecking it.

Maggie00 · 26/03/2010 15:10

How awful PM. If there is anything really valuable, call the police. That'd give him a shock. You can't deal with this on your own. If you don't call for help, just let him take it. It was a joint project. Sounds like the past. Losing your possessions hurts, but maybe it'll be a tiny bit cathartic to purge all of those items accumulated as a joint venture.. TRY to think of it like that. Did you co-own a business with him? What a total nightmare.

mathanxiety · 26/03/2010 15:29

I agree, call the police. He is robbing you. It will send him a very clear message about where he stands. And get a solicitor to deal with the business you were planning together. It will need to be wrapped up now.

therealme · 26/03/2010 15:36

PM let him and the furniture go. You are in no condition to deal with a wrangle over chairs at the moment.
Hopefully you will be able to sort out the shop/business later, with advice from a solicitor.
You and baby's well-being comes first atm so try to reschedule all thoughts about the furniture etc till later.

therealme · 26/03/2010 15:39

Oh, I was assuming he was moving it to your shop?
If that's not the case though then he is robbing you.

pinemartina · 26/03/2010 15:47

It is "only" joint from a creative perspective.He buys stuff at auction and house clearance,I strip,paint,reupholster,wax etc..He takes to flea markets,shows etc.The money is then spent on family outings ,food,holidays,but goes through his bank not mine.
The lease was signed and paid for by me.I have no legal or financial stake.
He has no stake in my house -thank God - and we have no joint financial arrangements.He has done the weekly shop and kept the freezer and fridge topped up,and put deisel in my car,serviced it and paid for repairs.
I lose those contributions now.Plus I have to pay a friend £200 for a nearly new pram/pushchair/carseat set that I have already collected.He was going to pay.I don't have the cash.
I also paid 3k on credit card for a holiday for us all - him ,me,4 kids plus newborn due in 3wks.He is meant to be paying half plus the fees for the dogs in kennels.
He just drove off.He has left half the stuff and there is paint all over the garage floor from an old tin of masonary paint that " someone" has used a screwdriver to wrench the lid from.It looks very "accidental".

pinemartina · 26/03/2010 15:49

No No - HE paid for the lease and signed it NOT ME ! Thank God

pinemartina · 26/03/2010 15:53

Txt from him "I have done more for your children than you or their fathers- and your parents agree with me.I will not take any more responsibility for them.I will take responsibility for my own child after it is born.You have pushed me too far"

Maggie00 · 26/03/2010 15:59

Oh these guys always seem to try and get your family to agree with them. I saw it the other day on the lone parent board, some guy posted a poor me story and the second he said 'even my x's family think she is a terrible mother' a huge bell sounded.

The trying to get you to think that your own family think you are mad bad sad etc is just text book.

Pinemartina, congratulations on pushing him too far! What does that mean in effect? Very little! Does that mean that he was going to be extremely generous with maintenance, and he was going to be extremely accommodating with access arrangements, but now he is unable to be generous to his child because you have pushed him "too far".

You are brave doing this before your baby is born. I wanted to leave my x when he attacked me when I was 9 weeks pregnant. I really wish I had just got ON with starting the rest of my life. But I didn't leave for another 18 months. So well done PM.

Unlikelyamazonian · 26/03/2010 16:07

Hi PM this all sounds pretty bloody foul. Typical. They do a nut-job antic just when things are (for you) totally stressful and frightening.

And your parents agree with him? That's nice. he has discussed it all behind your back with them has he?

Stupid child of a bloke. Trying to make you feel doubly triply crap with bells on. Without re-reading (can't remember if you have a good relationship with your parents) I would firstly ring your parents and ask them what the fuck he is talking about.

Re-gain sense of self step number one.

Then, make a cup of tea or have a gin and tonic (baby will be fine) and thank god he has moved the stuff out as he is going to have to run the bloody shop on his own now. Good luck to him finding someone else to wax, paint and re-upholster. Knobhead.

Then don't text him back. For now.

He has not done much for your children ahs he? Yes yes - material things and stuff are great but to just fuck off and leave them in the lurch is shite. Isd hwe going to be nice and sit down and talk to them with you about how he is not going to be in their lives anymore - only 'his' child's life?

He is a prize selfish dick.

I am still very that you have four dc and are about to have a little girl. Where in the UK are you as I will come and help if I can!

Summer is coming, the evenings are getting lighter, they are promising us a blistering summer, you have room in your garage to start your own business when you are ready.

In a word, fuck him.

This is the end. And it is your baby. He is not on the birth certificate yet. You could even tell him it's not his.

pinemartina · 26/03/2010 16:26

He just sent a voicemail saying he can't give me any money as he has just sent his (30 yr old) dd a cheque and has a lot of outgoings this month.Also that I shd be grateful for all he has done for me and my children in the past few years ,stuff their bastard fathers shd have done ,so he doesn't owe us anything on balance,especially as we have all been so ungrateful and never shown him any love or gratitude.No one wd have put up with such rude ,cheeky ungrateful children and so little attention from their mother.He now will be making himself the priority in his life as all his friends and family have been saying he shd.He shd never have waisted time and energy being sucked in by a single mother whos life is full of problems and just remember he never wanted a baby in the first place it was me who put my legs in the air after sex and caused it because evryone knows you cant get a woman pregnant when she has her period [!!!!!!!!!!!!]
I am to let him know sometime after the baby is born and he will then be having it every weekend.On those times ,it will be bottle fed formula so get over the breastfeeding obsession"
He lives in a 14ft caravan on a buildingplot where he is very slowly building a house.
My parents are N's too,that's how they get on so well.They entertain my other 2 exes and share dispairing stories of my failure to succeed.
I live in South Wales.I wont be putting him on the birth certificate.
Can he take a newborn away overnight - or away at all?

Maggie00 · 26/03/2010 16:59

So, how is he any different from or better than your children's "bastard fathers"??

Don't put his name on the BC. I think it spells out to judges in the future that even before the child was born he was out of the child's life. You don't want a lunatic to have a hold over you. If he's out of your life and won't give you a penny you know where you are. tHERE ISn't a judge in the World who would order you to handover a breastfed baby for an entire weekend, especially to a father who wasn't named on the birth cert. He would have to go to court to prove paternity first (if he's not on the birth cert) and he can't be bothered. Honestly. He'll huff and puff and make you feel very anxious and worried. But if you don't put his name on the birth cert then he can't call the shots. If he threatens to take you to court to prove paternity tell him, that's grand, we'll sort out maintenance while we're there.

Maggie00 · 26/03/2010 17:01

ps, and don't feel guilty about not naming him on the birth cert. A father's name can be added, but it can't be taken away.

And not being named on the birth cert won't prevent him from being a good father. So don't feel guilty about not naming him. Hang on to your rights.

mathanxiety · 26/03/2010 17:12

Oh yes, he has done more for your children than you or their fathers have. More damage, that is, than their fathers combined.

I think a solicitor would have another opinion as to whether he will now make himself a priority in his life.

''just remember he never wanted a baby in the first place it was me who put my legs in the air after sex and caused it because evryone knows you cant get a woman pregnant when she has her period [!!!!!!!!!!!!]
I am to let him know sometime after the baby is born and he will then be having it every weekend.On those times ,it will be bottle fed formula so get over the breastfeeding obsession" PM KEEP THIS TEXT. IT IS VITALLY IMPORTANT TO KEEP THIS TEXT. He cannot - CANNOT - do this to your baby. Go to a solicitor asap, plus Womens Aid.

mathanxiety · 26/03/2010 17:14

And everything Maggie says about the BC and maintenance/paternity.

Maggie00 · 26/03/2010 17:16

Yes, please contact Women's Aid. It's such an emotional time, having a baby. And you need help from people in real life. Your family are hopeless. You WILL get back up on your feet again though. But right now you need a bit of help. What age are your eldest children?

pinemartina · 26/03/2010 17:16

Thanks Maggie.I will stick to that.
He is no different - in fact worse as they were around while dc's were babies - in body at least!
Hmmm not sure I experienced that as "better" at the time...
He wd say he has at least put in a good few years trying to be there for other peoples kids and that it is not his fault he has given up but theirs and mine.And that he didn't want this one at all - that is a new and recent claim.Last year,he couldn't wait to make it.
I so dread all that will be heading our way now.
I so want to be hugged and made better.Yes that is parental love I guess.I will make sure I give dc's plenty.I feel lonely more than anything.Don't think anger is easy to feel when pg.Can get there intellectually but feel more sorry for myself and dc's than anything else.